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5 PUBLIC HEARING
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8 WINDSOR CHARTER TOWNSHIP PLANNING COMMISSION
9 JUNE 8, 2005
10 7:00 P.M.
11
12 RE: MICHIGAN HORSE PARK SPECIAL USE PERMIT
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17 Stenographically recorded by M. Jane Allen, Notary Public
18 and Certified Shorthand Reporter, CSR #2724, at the
19 Dimondale First Presbyterian Church, 162 North Bridge
20 Street, Dimondale, Michigan.
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P.O. BOX 21038 - LANSING, MI 48909-1038
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1 MR. MARTINEZ: Welcome to the June, 2005 Windsor
2 Charter Township Planning Commission meeting, and thank you
3 for coming. We appreciate your input.
4 Before we get started, there are some rules and
5 guidelines that we at Windsor Charter Township Planning
6 Commission use in our public meetings. Please pay close
7 attention so that this meeting can run very smoothly.
8 Our attempt by these rules and guidelines is to
9 allow everybody that wants to speak the opportunity to do
10 so.
11 First of all, we are here at the very nice
12 courtesy of the Dimondale First Presbyterian Church. Please
13 be respective of the premises at all times. Those of you
14 who have cell phones, and probably all of you, please turn
15 them off immediately. We do not allow any cell phones on in
16 our meetings. If you have a call come through and you need
17 to talk, please step out in the lobby.
18 When you come to the podium to speak, we want you
19 to identify yourselves. State your address and state
20 whether you're a resident of Windsor Township.
21 We're going to limit. We have quite a large group
22 here. We're going to make every attempt to let all of you
23 talk. If we see we're running extremely long, we may modify
24 the procedures some. I'll talk to you about that later on
25 if that happens, but right now, we'll give everyone three
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1 minutes to speak. If you have additional comments and you
2 might need three minutes and 15 seconds, 20 seconds, please
3 let me know, and I probably will make every possible
4 accommodation to follow up and let you finish your
5 comments.
6 Please avoid repeating the comments of another
7 individual who comes up to speak. If you agree with he or
8 she, merely come up to the podium and say my name is Jack
9 Jones, and I agree with Jim Jones. State your address, name
10 and Windsor Township resident. That will avoid repetition.
11 This is a very important rule, and I'm going to
12 enforce it very strictly, so please listen close.
13 Please refrain from the following unacceptable
14 comments. I will not allow any accusations back and forth,
15 demeaning comments, pungent remarks, any profanity, loud or
16 obscene speech, swearing or cursing. If you do the
17 following, you will be asked to leave.
18 When I close the public meeting, it will be closed
19 and closed for public comment at that time.
20 Those are some of the basic guidelines that I ask
21 you to follow, and please, we will make every attempt to let
22 all of you talk. We are here to listen to the pros and cons
23 on both sides. As someone makes any comment, I don't want
24 any jeers or cheers. Be very respectful of one another; no
25 heckling, okay.
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1 Mr. Foulds, would you like to make -- Mr. Foulds
2 is one of our planners, and Mr. Fountain. Is there some
3 remarks you would like to make before we proceed forward
4 with the public hearing?
5 JAMES FOULDS: Yes, sir. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
6 My name is James Foulds. I'm planning consultant to
7 Windsor Charter Township.
8 The chairman has asked me to outline the question
9 before the Planning Commission this evening. This is not a
10 matter of rezoning. The property is currently zoned
11 industrial. The requested use, which is a horse park
12 facility, requires a special use permit in the M-1
13 industrial zoning district. So we're not talking about a
14 matter of rezoning, we're talking about a special use permit
15 which would be considered by the Planning Commission and
16 recommended to the Board of Trustees and a final decision
17 made by the Board of Trustees.
18 The M-1 zoning district, again, which this
19 property is currently zoned, permits wholesale, warehousing,
20 manufacturing and industrial activity by right. It does not
21 permit by right the use that's been requested by the
22 applicant, hence, the special use permit application and the
23 public hearing this evening.
24 If the use is approved by the Board of Trustees,
25 the steps involved for the applicant would be submission of
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1 a site plan under the requirements of the Windsor Township
2 Zoning Ordinance, which would look at specific site details,
3 such as circulation, site design, dimensional issues. Those
4 are issues that the commission or the staff or the applicant
5 really aren't in a position to discuss this evening. We're
6 here to talk about the use of the property.
7 The special use permit requires consideration by
8 the Planning Commission of criteria established in the
9 special use section of the Zoning Ordinance. Those review
10 standards, if you will, are very specific, and the analysis
11 conducted by the staff and consideration by the Planning
12 Commission will focus within those review criteria only.
13 Mr. Chairman, that concludes my comments. I would
14 be happy to answer any questions you might have.
15 MR. MARTINEZ: The public hearing in this matter
16 will now come to order, and the first speaker on the agenda
17 is Mr. Dorian Lange, and he will take approximately a half
18 hour or the approximate time needed to make his
19 presentation. And I just have a quick question, Mr. Lange.
20 I'm looking at your original application. Is
21 everything the same as it was prior, has anything changed on
22 it?
23 MR. LANGE: Not to my knowledge.
24 MR. MARTINEZ: Okay. With that in mind, you are
25 free to begin your presentation.
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1 DORIAN LANGE: Can everybody see this? Probably
2 not, huh?
3 Is it possible to dim the lights up here a little
4 bit? I think one of my greatest fears tonight was that this
5 church was not air conditioned, so I'm certainly glad it
6 is. And looks like it's just the right size, too. We have
7 standing room only, which is great, a lot of interest.
8 I appreciate your comments, Mr. Chairman and Mr.
9 Foulds.
10 I'm Dorian Lange. My address is 4774 Smithville
11 Road, Eaton Rapids, Hamlin Township. I'm representing
12 Michigan Horse Park tonight, giving you a power point
13 presentation. We have several team members here, which I
14 will introduce.
15 Gil Short is our horse racetrack consultant.
16 He'll be part and parcel of this presentation as well as
17 several other people.
18 And first of all, let me say this. There has
19 been -- this has been a long process. We have been involved
20 in it for many years. This is the third time that we have
21 given a presentation to either the board or the Planning
22 Commission as information only. This is our first public
23 hearing, so regardless of your opinion, either supportive or
24 against the proposed use of the property, we respect it, and
25 I hope all of you in the audience will respect the speaker,
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1 and I'm just echoing Mr. Martinez here.
2 Michigan Horse Park -- you can go to the next
3 slide -- we're going to talk about the site, the design, the
4 facilities in that design, the uses of the facility, the
5 events that will take place there, the economic impact on
6 the township level as well as the county level and possibly
7 a statewide level. The township has our resume's, and we
8 won't go through those.
9 Just to say that I am an Eaton County resident,
10 have been for 25 or more years. I have six children in
11 Eaton County Public Schools. I'm a high school athletic
12 coach, and I have built a number of buildings in Eaton
13 County, most of them industrial, large, ugly boxes, quite
14 frankly. And what I really want to build is something that
15 is a legacy that will last hundreds of years.
16 The longevity of an industrial building is about
17 30 years and after that, they become ugly and a lot of times
18 vacant. The land is zoned industrial. This is actually a
19 down zoning, but it is located -- it is approximately a 200
20 acre site on the northwest corner of Pinch Highway on
21 Lansing Road. It's immediately accessible by I-96, and
22 Blair Balew, the director of the Eaton County Road
23 Commission, is here to speak a little bit about the
24 accessibility of the site.
25 Public water and sewer will be brought in from an
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1 off site location. That's really up to the engineers, and
2 that will be solely at our cost, no cost to the township.
3 Here's the boundary survey of the site, Nixon
4 Road. Actually, the west side of the property is on the
5 bottom of your screen. Canadian National Railroad is on the
6 west, and then you have Pinch Highway on the south --
7 actually, C and N Railroad is on the north, excuse me, and
8 Lansing Road and I-69 is on the east.
9 The site features extensive green areas,
10 approximately 92 percent green, so it's pretty analogous to
11 having a golf course out there rather than housing or an
12 industrial park, automotive factory, that sort of thing.
13 The primary access will be Pinch Highway. We plan
14 to pave probably a hundred yards or less of Pinch Highway,
15 and the site, and you will see, is immediately accessible
16 off Lansing Road with a short jaunt onto Pinch.
17 It will feature a seven-eighths furlong racetrack
18 that Mr. Short will get into, events center and other
19 buildings, and this is the site plan, and I'm going to
20 introduce Mr. Gil Short.
21 Mr. Short has his offices in Lexington, Kentucky
22 and Port St. Luci, Florida. He has built a number of
23 facilities of this kind across the nation, most recently
24 down in Indianapolis, some in Texas. He worked on Gulf
25 Stream down in Florida. He's worked at Colonial Downs. He
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1 is the foremost renown designer and planner of these type of
2 facilities in the United States. Mr. Gil Short.
3 MR. SHORT: Thank you. As Dorian said, this site
4 is on 200 acres, and he described where it's located, and
5 our design with the track, it starts with obviously the
6 racetrack, and everything builds off that. This is a
7 seven-eighths furlong racetrack, and it can be used for port
8 horse racing, mixed breed racing, harness racing or
9 thoroughbred racing.
10 The components that go along with it are obviously
11 the grandstand, and this being a Michigan horse park, the
12 major focus of this whole project is the actual horse shows
13 and the arenas and the stable areas for horse shows. The
14 racing will probably only amount to 25 to 30 days a year, as
15 it is in Saginaw and Jackson, so 25 or 30 days a year of
16 racing and 360 days a year of hopefully horse shows,
17 conventions, what have you, in our facility.
18 Then, you have a sales arena for the sale of
19 horses, for the sale of anything, really. We are not really
20 concentrating on livestock as much as we are the horse
21 (inaudible) industry.
22 And in this area here, you have a hotel that's
23 going to house possibly a theme restaurant and plenty of
24 parking. We have horse trails going around the property to
25 the extent of around a mile and a half of horse trails in
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1 this massive green area here.
2 Michigan Horse Park, as I did in Indiana Downs, I
3 read some propaganda that our sport is declining in the way
4 of attendance, and that is exactly right. In Indiana Downs,
5 I built a large three-race paddock. I built a viewing area
6 where people could get within 10 to 15 foot of the horses,
7 and it's really a great family environment. I built a
8 family site to the four sections of the grandstand. It's
9 free admission. It's got an arcade, it's got (inaudible),
10 it's got various activities for kids. Indiana Downs in
11 Shelbyville, Indiana has really increased their attendance
12 due to the entertainment end of it in the fact that it's
13 free for family and kids.
14 Obviously, I have a theory I want them to instead
15 of saying McDonald's, I want to go, I want them to say
16 horses and go out to the horse track. But it's working in
17 Indiana, and that's what you have to do in this day and age.
18 Most of the people now, or a lot of people now, if
19 they're betting or they're wagering on horses, they're doing
20 it on the internet or they're doing it in simulcast
21 facilities. They just don't go to the racetrack like they
22 use to. So it really has changed the concept of designing
23 racetracks. You have to design an entertainment facility
24 now, and racing is a secondary issue.
25 In each space in this entire complex can be used
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1 for multiple uses. The stalls in the show arena area are
2 all removable. It can be 300 and some thousand square feet
3 for conventions, for auto shows, R.V. Shows, what have you.
4 And the more use you get out of this, obviously, the more
5 functions you can have there.
6 I built the Indiana Downs, and I had 700 seats on
7 the second floor, and we didn't realize it at the time, but
8 they now entertain I think seven junior-senior proms in the
9 area of Shelbyville, Indiana. When you get a facility
10 that's got that much space, you can do a lot of things with
11 it.
12 As I said, it's a seven furlong racetrack, and a
13 furlong is nothing more than an eighth of a mile, so an
14 eighth of a mile is shorter than a full mile, and that's
15 pretty normal. Seven furlongs is a popular racetrack,
16 especially for thoroughbreds and port horses as long as you
17 have the shoot.
18 The outdoor show and exhibition space, I'll show
19 you a picture in a minute of these other things. I can
20 explain these when we get the pictures up better than I can
21 go through these.
22 This is a facade. This is what will be seen from
23 Lansing Road and the expressway. This is a lot of what my
24 design includes, a lot of tupelos, giving it the horse park
25 theme, so-to-speak, and that's probably one of the
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1 trademarks of my designs.
2 Over here, we have an open paddock. This is all a
3 green area and paved area where people can get up next to
4 the fence, watch the horses when they go out to race and get
5 very close to them. That's the whole key to this entire
6 facility is to let people interact and get close to the
7 horses. Some tracks keep the horses on the back side. You
8 take children out there, every 20 minutes, they see a race.
9 There's nothing for them to get entertained with, so my
10 theory here is to keep the horses close, let the drivers
11 talk to the people, let the drivers sign autographs,
12 whatever it is, jockeys, whatever you have there, you got to
13 let them intermix with the public to create some interest to
14 come back.
15 This is a floor plan of the actual entire
16 facility. This is the grandstand area. It's approximately
17 70,000 square feet. This is the main colosseum show arena.
18 It's a 120 by 250 feet arena with up to 4,000 seats in a
19 stadium type setting. This is the second arena. Again,
20 it's 250 by 120. It doesn't have the seating as this one
21 does, but it does give us the potential of having two horse
22 shows simultaneously.
23 This is the horse sales area arena, and horse
24 sales are very popular in Michigan, whether it be drive
25 horses or race horses or whatever kind you have. There's a
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1 lot of horse sales in Michigan. This will seat around 350
2 people.
3 These are the general administrative offices. And
4 here's a concept that can either be outdoor, warm up arenas
5 or this can house up to 600 extra stalls for the bigger
6 shows. We've talked to the draft horse people. They have
7 shows in excess of 1,100 horses, so we have added on this
8 awning type facility so we can accommodate their shows.
9 Indoors, we have 550 stalls of which 120 will be a
10 secured area for the racing of live horses when they are in
11 town for the 25 days, and the rest will be an open area with
12 moveable stalls, and this configuration can change for
13 whatever function we have.
14 Here's the jockey's quarters at this point, the
15 paddock area again where the people come in and will watch
16 the horses, and of then course, the track is out here.
17 Again, this is just the facade of the racetrack
18 side of the building that will be seen from the expressway.
19 It's just a bigger picture than what we saw in the past.
20 This is our first floor, and this is sort of a
21 common area. The racetrack site is here. The arena site is
22 here, so this is going to be basically a first floor
23 commissary that's going to house obviously the concession,
24 that's a big part of our business, a gift shop, the restroom
25 -- and I'm sorry, this is the colosseum site, this is the
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1 racetrack site, but people can use it coming both
2 directions. And concessions, believe it or not,
3 concessions, program and parking is the way racetracks make
4 money.
5 If you bet $2.00, you make 14 cents. If buy a
6 Coke for $2.00, you make $1.40, so we like to sell a lot of
7 Cokes.
8 Second floor is more of our clubhouse floor. This
9 is a dining area that seats approximately 2,700 people up
10 here, but this is the dining area with the tables. Each
11 table has a television. This is the VIP seating area, and
12 this is a general seating area that's at no charge. This is
13 a bar on the back side of it that overlooks the colosseum.
14 This is a deck that overlooks the colosseum and the
15 restrooms and the kitchen area and the open area of the
16 floor space.
17 The third floor, other than administrative
18 offices, it's going to have four VIP suites, two of them
19 overlooking the racetrack, two of them overlooking the
20 colosseum. They will house about 50 people each or all four
21 of them together 200 people, but for the horse shows, you
22 can rent VIP suites. It could be one or it could be two. I
23 built the same facility in Indiana, and when you open up the
24 partitions, it's one big room instead of two small ones.
25 The uses and events. Presently, we're dealing --
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1 and I was on the road yesterday touring about 325 miles
2 talking with different horse breeds. There's a lot of
3 interest, and there's a lot of people that want to find a
4 good racetrack to race at in central Michigan.
5 I had a great response. I went all the way from
6 Niles, Michigan to Adrian, Michigan fairgrounds to Hazel
7 Park last night, and I have a couple more meetings tomorrow
8 with different breeds of the horse industry. So we have a
9 lot of interest in them. We're going to get a lot of
10 support from the horsemen; they need it. The county fairs
11 in Michigan are floundering. In fact, they can't really
12 maintain the racetracks and the way these horses need to be
13 treated, and that's a big concern is the safety of the
14 horses.
15 When you get a racetrack like this, obviously, we
16 have equipment, we have the people with the expertise to
17 really keep a class racetrack for the safety of the horses.
18 The indoor and outdoor horse shows is not my
19 expertise, but since I have been up here with Mr. Lange, I
20 think it's been four months, the response and the interest
21 and the meetings I have had, I just had a draft horse person
22 ask, they have four shows a year in excess of a thousand
23 horses. That's pretty impressive numbers. And they would
24 like nothing other than to move it all into Michigan. They
25 have to go to Columbus, Ohio now. They have to go to other
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1 areas because of the inability of a place to house that many
2 horses.
3 A lot of events like rodeos and various other
4 events that are interest levels of the area will be brought
5 to the facility.
6 Mr. Lange will take over from this point and talk
7 about some of the local events he's going to promote here.
8 Thank you, very much.
9 MR. LANGE: Gil touched a lot about on the
10 racetrack component of the project, and you know, we want to
11 make it real clear this is a multi venue, family friendly
12 entertainment, tourism destination point. We have been
13 working with State Government to try to get this designated
14 as a tourism destination point which will allow us access to
15 federal dollars in the form of grants, but this facility is
16 intended to be used for a lot of youth events, high school
17 equestrian. I don't think people realize that the high
18 school Interscholastic Horse Association is the fastest
19 growing high school sport in Michigan, 97 percent girls,
20 fastest growing sport in Michigan. They have an A.D.C.
21 class meet. Their state meet is currently in Midland. They
22 would like nothing better than to move down here.
23 Another piece of trivia, No. 1 spectator sport in
24 the United States, above the National Football League, above
25 Nascar, is rodeo, No. 1, No. 1, and very very few people,
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1 unless you're affiliated with horses realize that. I'm sure
2 we watch Monday night football or Lions -- or we don't watch
3 Lions, but you know, rodeo is the No. 1 spectator sport in
4 the United States.
5 4-H is welcome to use this, and I think there are
6 some 4-H people here that can speak to that. They don't
7 have to. No one has to use the facility. Large, small,
8 livestock events. Gil touched on the fact that we're
9 catering a lot to horses, but in our talks with various
10 animal groups, 4-H groups, hockey clubs. Eaton County leads
11 the State of Michigan in the number of rabbits, for example.
12 There's no reason why we can't have dog shows or rabbit
13 shows or llamas or alpacas and that sort of thing.
14 You have to remember, all our stalls are
15 fiberglass, they're washable, they're sanitized, you can
16 move them out. We can configure that facility to whatever
17 event can take place. So we can have any type of tractor
18 show or anything else in there.
19 The colosseum, I notice some cutting horse people
20 there. They like to have a certain amount of dirt in there,
21 certain amount of fluff and all this kind of stuff, but all
22 that dirt can be removed in 24 hours, and that colosseum can
23 be used as a meeting facility or for a concert. So this is
24 truly a multi event type of facility.
25 Other uses, egg expos. A lot of people have said
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1 are you in competition with M.S.U. No, we're not. I think
2 there's some M.S.U. people here. The A pavilion is booked
3 two years in advance. You get off the schedule, you cannot
4 get back in. I do not mean to offend anybody here, but that
5 facility was built for sows and cows. It wasn't built for
6 horses. So this is truly built for horses, but we can use
7 it for other livestock.
8 I get calls all the time, can we have a dog show
9 there? Certainly. You can have anything you want. But
10 again, we are not telling people they can use it. It's
11 available.
12 One thing I want to also make clear, too, when you
13 talk about 4-H high school equestrian, the handicap riders
14 like the Beekman Center, the therapeutic riding school, and
15 their budget was just slashed to nothing, those type of
16 organizations do not have the money to enjoy this type of
17 facility unless you bring in other sources of revenue,
18 hence, the racetrack.
19 People say why can't you have the racetrack
20 alone. Well, the racetrack industry has declined for 10
21 years. This is something that is totally new. We've
22 researched it. For the horse park to survive and for us to
23 cater to the 4-H groups and other youth groups, we need the
24 revenue for on the track.
25 If in fact the track is to survive, we need the
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1 people to come through the door and show their horses,
2 attend a rodeo and watch a horse race. And horses that will
3 be raising, Arabs, I raise Arabs. I raise miniatures, too,
4 but Arabs, Paints, Apaloosas, quarter horses. There's
5 probably many of you in the room that didn't realize that
6 Michigan is the No. 2 state for the number of paint horses
7 in the United States. We are in the top 5, maybe top 3 for
8 the number of horses in general in the United States. We're
9 also No. 3 in golf courses, which makes no sense, but maybe
10 the number of horses don't make any sense either.
11 But the reality of the situation is this is a
12 great facility, but we don't want to build it -- and some of
13 our bankers are here, and they certainly don't want me to
14 build it to go broke. So you need multi venue, multi
15 streams of revenue, one project supports the other, and it
16 comes out to be a winner. The next one, please.
17 We don't have to dwell on animals. We can have
18 wedding receptions here. We have VIP suites upstairs. We
19 have a large 7,000 square feet open space upstairs for high
20 school proms. Great wedding receptions can take place
21 there, catered parties, large corporate meetings.
22 Currently, we're getting a lot of response from auto
23 suppliers wanting naming rights, sponsorships, that sort of
24 thing. Gil is bringing in a Budweiser team if we do have a
25 grand opening and other events sort of like that.
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1 Economic impact. Totally anticipated cost 45 to
2 $55 million. We have the horse park component of that, that
3 has increased substantially, so we've talked to you about
4 every major breed in Michigan. We've talked to some of you
5 people. All of you have different needs. The draft horse
6 people want bigger stalls, bigger aisles, direct access to
7 the colosseum. Everybody wants a Cadillac, and I think
8 we've got a pretty good Oldsmobile going here.
9 Windsor Township revenue, about 60 thousand to a
10 hundred thousand property taxes based on 2.4 mills. Now,
11 remember, that was on the $55 million cost. If the cost
12 does go up due to the horse park, that's going to be
13 slightly higher.
14 Breakage fee. That is a fee dictated by the State
15 of Michigan Racing Commission. I'm not going to get into a
16 formula because it's extremely complicated, but it's a
17 percentage of the unclaimed tickets and bets and everything
18 else. Our anticipated revenue to Windsor Township to use
19 for community service, any extra costs, libraries, parks,
20 whatever they want to use it for, our projection currently
21 based on our proforma is $366,000. Now, we just redid that
22 proforma, and we think that figure is going to be slightly
23 higher than that.
24 Eaton County revenue to the county at 10 mills is
25 $250,000, again, based on that $55 million anticipated
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1 cost. That will go up in excess of $300,000 when the
2 project is completely done.
3 Immediate employment of 450 to 500. That's taking
4 into account the racetrack people, taking into account the
5 ticket handlers, the veterinarians on site, the farriers,
6 the people that take care of the grounds, the horses, you
7 name it. But what the real benefit is, is the indirect jobs
8 or the cottage industry that this spins off of.
9 I was just talking to the manager over at the
10 Eaton County coop elevator on M-50, and we made it perfectly
11 clear that we plan to by all our grain, our straw, our hay
12 from local farmers. There is still a number of farmers here
13 in Eaton County, even though a lot of these farms are being
14 carved up. But we intend to try to resource and out source
15 everything locally, try to employ locally, and really it
16 would be a huge shot in the arm for the agriculture
17 component. I just want to touch on that for just a minute.
18 The No. 2 and No. 3 industries in the State of
19 Michigan are agriculture and tourism. This venue combines
20 both of those. All you read in the paper these days is G.M.
21 laying off 25,000 people, Lansing Car Assembly shutting
22 down, manufacturing jobs going down. We've lost 400,000
23 manufacturing jobs in the last five years. Does anybody in
24 this room think we're going to get those back? I don't
25 think so. We need to diversify our economy; we need to
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1 diversify our economy. And our Governor talks about it.
2 She's talked about it ever since she's been in office. I
3 don't see anything happening. I think we're leading the
4 nation in unemployment, or pretty close. We're either one
5 or two.
6 I'm a high school athletic coach. I see a lot of
7 kids that are going to L.C.C. I think we have some faculty
8 members from L.C.C. here tonight that will address that
9 situation. But it's not as easy as it used to be where you
10 go to General Motors, fill out an application and get a job
11 on the line. It doesn't happen anymore. And the number of
12 under employed people is significant. Those people making
13 18 to 20 dollars an hour are now making seven and eight
14 working at Wal-Mart. Does anybody in this room disagree
15 with that? I don't think so; I don't think so. There's a
16 lot of us out there.
17 Days of operation, 363. We don't know what hours
18 of operation, probably 11:00 to 11:00, something like that,
19 11:00 to 2:00 on weekends.
20 Next slide, please. We'll skip that.
21 We have received support from Tom Powers. I don't
22 know if he is here tonight, but he is an event planner for
23 the horse industry. This is the best mouse trap for horses
24 built in the Midwest, basically. He would love to see this
25 and book events into the place.
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1 A Cutting Horse Association, I think we have some
2 Cutting horse people here tonight.
3 Jim Barrett, President, CEO of Michigan Chamber of
4 Commerce, has given us a lot of support, strong support. I
5 think we have the Lansing Tri-County Regional Chamber of
6 Commerce here tonight who can speak on their own behalf.
7 Letter of support from your own state representative. We
8 can skip this slide.
9 October 5th of last year, the Racing Commissioner,
10 the Honorable R. Robert Geak, signed an order issuing
11 racetrack license to Platinum Partners. What is Platinum
12 Partners? It's an L.L.C., limited liability corporation,
13 and the project has been renamed Michigan Horse Park to take
14 into account that racing is really a small part of this
15 whole thing. I think we have been led astray a little bit
16 by the press, because that's what sells papers, quite
17 honestly; that's what sells papers. No one wants to hear
18 about a Disney World theme park with horses in it, but they
19 do want to write about a racetrack.
20 A race meeting license is also required. We need
21 to get that license in before August 31st of this year. We
22 want to get it in, have them critique it, get it back to us
23 so we can race next year. Hopefully, our ideal plan is to
24 start construction this early fall, be up and ready to go by
25 next summer. To do that, we need to get that race
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1 application in. That's why we're having this public
2 hearing. We need to get a decision so we can get moving
3 forward. This is an actual copy of the racetrack license.
4 It's very specific, and it's public information. Anybody
5 can read it.
6 We've had some questions in the past directed at
7 us, and I think it will help if a lot of the public opinion,
8 will this project increase traffic, will it increase noise,
9 will it have some parking lot lights; yes, yes, yes. All
10 those are consistent with the zoning that is presently in
11 place. If we put in an industrial park there, auto parts,
12 you will have increased traffic, you will have parking lot
13 lights, and you will have increased noise. In this case,
14 you have 92 percent green space. It is a magnificent green
15 space buffer from the industrial projects on the other side
16 of the tracks. If you go out there right now, and I don't
17 know how many of you have driven out there, Canadian
18 National Railroad is in the process of putting in their rail
19 yard just on the other side of the tracks from this race
20 course. They will be shipping close to 300 to 400,000
21 vehicles a year from General Motors or having four or five
22 spurs, I haven't seen the site plan, going up in General
23 Motors. There's going to be a lot of noise and a lot of
24 commotion. This is a nice green space buffer from that
25 industrial hot spot. North of that, of course, is a new
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1 General Motors assembly plant going into place.
2 So yeah, there's going to be traffic; there's
3 going to be traffic, but they're not diesel trucks if you
4 make an industrial park. Is there going to be parking lot
5 lights? Yeah, we need parking lot lights for safety. Is
6 there going to be more noise? There is going to be more
7 noise than the people dumping trash out there right now or
8 people shooting deer out there. Yeah, there will be a
9 little bit more noise.
10 I think there has been some questions about
11 crime. These horse shows are high ticket type of items.
12 These horses range in price from $5,000 to $100,000 for a
13 show horse. A horse trailer alone can cost $100,000.
14 They're pulled by a half million-dollar R.V. These are not
15 the people that cause crime, and to address that, our
16 Honorable Sheriff, Mike Raines is here, and if he could just
17 speak for just a moment. Mike.
18 MR. MARTINEZ: Mr. Lange, how much will he
19 actually have for the presentation? Because I think those
20 can be under public comments.
21 MR. LANGE: Well, he's part of our team, and I
22 think it will limit the public comment a little bit if we
23 address the crime, the financing with the bankers up front,
24 sir, if you would be so kind. Mike.
25 MIKE RAINES: Good evening. The first thing I
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1 want to say is that I do not take the position on the horse
2 park, but I'm here to try to address the concerns that
3 everybody has, which would be crime and traffic.
4 I've never dealt with something like this before,
5 so it's new to me, but I would think that ideally with all
6 the revenue that's being produced, if the Township and the
7 county and Mr. Lange got together, they could probably come
8 up with some type of a site or plan to have a sub station up
9 here in Windsor Township. It's my understanding that that's
10 been a dream for many years to have your own police agency
11 up here in Windsor Township and to have a sub station.
12 I would think that, or my recommendations would be
13 that if this goes through that we have a sub station on site
14 or near the site which would have between three to six
15 personnel and also the Mounted Division assisting in doing
16 security.
17 MR. LANGE: Thanks, Sheriff Raines.
18 Gil is going to say something, but one thing you
19 also may want to note is the Eaton County Mounted Sheriffs
20 Division, their new proposed headquarters will be in
21 Michigan Horse Park. We have donated a farm and office
22 space for them for their entire division, and they will be
23 headquartered there for additional security. There will be
24 two mounted sheriffs at all events at all times, and they
25 will be paid, and it will give them something they have
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1 never had before and give us, of course, the added benefit
2 of sheriffs on horseback in a horse park.
3 Gil, go ahead.
4 GIL SHORT: I have had a few calls concerning the
5 security issues and what it would cost the Township
6 providing a racetrack comes in, and I'd like to express to
7 you my past experiences in what the Michigan Race Commission
8 also requires.
9 First of all, we have to submit a security plan.
10 We have to house an in-house security system. We have to
11 employ our own grounds security people, a director of
12 security, and again, he's got to submit a plan to the
13 commission.
14 As far as any armed officers or any traffic
15 control officers, we out source that, off duty policemen.
16 New Kent County, Virginia, Shelbyville County in Indiana,
17 I'd be happy to fullfil you with the names of the sheriffs
18 there. It is very beneficial because we pay for all traffic
19 control, we pay for all on site law enforcement officers
20 other than the ones on our payroll, so we pay for it all.
21 We pay for the ambulance service. We're in-house. We have
22 to submit a first-aid plan. We have to have it endorsed by
23 a physician. We have ambulances on site. The only thing
24 the area would get involved in is if there's transport to
25 the hospital, and of course, insurance takes over from
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1 there.
2 So as far as law enforcement, we have to support
3 and pay the law enforcement, and we go to the municipality
4 local first to see if they have enough off duty policemen.
5 In Indiana, they did not have enough in the county so we
6 went to the city and ended up using the state patrol for
7 traffic control. You do have historical days, Kentucky
8 Derby, grand opening. Yeah, you do need a lot of traffic
9 control people, but again, we are obligated to pay for them,
10 and we have to submit our plan to the Race Commission and
11 get their okay to do it that way. Thank you.
12 MR. LANGE: The other major concern that I keep
13 getting calls on are the highways adequate to support the
14 traffic there, and I would like to introduce Blair Balew as
15 director of the Eaton County Road Commission. Blair, are
16 you here?
17 MR. BALEW: As Dorian said, I'm the interim
18 manager of the Eaton County Road Commission.
19 Ladies and gentlemen of the board, I typically
20 don't come to these and make recommendations to the Planning
21 Commission as the Road Commission does not have authority
22 over land use. But I guess I just jotted down a few items
23 to mention.
24 Without a traffic impact study, we really don't
25 know what the traffic is going to be in and out of there,
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1 but I would agree with Mr. Lange that most traffic would
2 access this from the expressways from Lansing Road to the
3 state highway and of course the interstates.
4 We typically of the Road Commission would require
5 the proprietor to prepare a traffic impact study or study
6 during the site plan review process, and that study could
7 identify any needed improvements, safety improvements that
8 could be made as part of the site in order to mitigate any
9 negative impacts.
10 Again, I think it's reasonable to expect that most
11 of the traffic would access this from the state highways
12 instead the adjacent road system. I would expect that there
13 would be some traffic increase on the adjacent county roads,
14 but there is really no way to quantify that without studying
15 it. Thank you.
16 MR. LANGE: Thanks, Blair. The other major
17 question is in the Lansing State Journal said this would be
18 economically not feasible in their editorial, he's at risk
19 of losing his money. I didn't see any editors of the
20 Lansing State Journal taking out their checkbooks to help me
21 out, though. So it's my money.
22 To address that, I have Kerry Shafner here. He's
23 our Wall Street investor, investment banker. I'd like to
24 introduce Kerry. Are you here?
25 MR. SHAFNER: Good evening, ladies and gentlemen.
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1 My name is Kerry Shafner. I live in Gross Point, Michigan
2 on Hampton Road.
3 We have been retained by Mr. Lange to finance this
4 project, and we have, delighted to say, a great deal of
5 interest from many many parties primarily in the State of
6 Michigan. And we are in the process with counsel of having
7 a private placement memorandum put together that we haven't
8 figured out the exact dollar amount, but it's going to be in
9 the vicinity of the 40 to 50 million dollar slide you saw
10 here from Mr. Lange.
11 There will also be debt financing that will be
12 provided by major banks that are operated in the State of
13 Michigan. Specifically we're speaking with Comerica and
14 Fifth Third Bank. They're very excited about the project to
15 date, but we have no firm commitments from them at this
16 stage. All I can say is that we are highly confident that
17 we can finance this transaction. Thanks.
18 MR. LANGE: Thanks, Kerry. And finally, Mr.
19 Chairman, Bob Lombardini is here. He's from Canter, and
20 this is very typical of an organization that's going to be
21 headquartered. Canter is a rehabilitation, non profit
22 agency that rehabilitates race horses and donates them to
23 youth, and they're nationwide, and they want to headquarter
24 the national headquarters here at Michigan Horse Park. Bob.
25 MR. LOMBARDINI: Thank you, very much. My name is
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1 Bob Lombardini. I'm a member of the Board of Directors for
2 Canter.
3 Canter, as Mr. Lange indicated, is a
4 rehabilitation race horse rescue. We do specialize in
5 transitioning horses, thoroughbreds only, from the racetrack
6 to pleasure usage.
7 We are looking forward to being one of the users
8 of the Michigan Horse Park, much as the Secretariat Center
9 is one of the users of the Kentucky Horse Park, for those of
10 you who have been through that facility down in Lexington.
11 Secretariat Center does the same thing. It's a horse
12 rescue. It's designed to facilitate transferring horses
13 from the commercial work to pleasure work.
14 Canter would not only have office facilities
15 there, but we would house 30 to 40 horses, which is a common
16 number we have here in Michigan with our control, and they
17 would be going through various phases, everything from walk,
18 trot, canter type training. They certainly have to be
19 transitioned from the racetrack to pleasure usage. And
20 those that need medical care, in cooperation with Michigan
21 State University College of Veterinary Medicine, we will
22 hand them anywhere from surgical rehab through just pasture
23 rest and ultimate complete rehabilitation until they can
24 return to a situation where they can become useful as
25 pleasure horses.
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1 Our horses end up being everything from dressage
2 to western pleasure, to pasture pals, to eventing. We've
3 got a few cutting horses. These are very talented animals.
4 They're very athletic animals, and they can be used for many
5 many different types of uses once their racing careers are
6 over. So we would be one of the none racing users of the
7 park.
8 Another board member, Ms. Heidi Rice, is with me
9 here tonight, and will be available if there's any questions
10 afterwards regarding canter usage.
11 MR. LANGE: Thanks, Bob. So I'm closing, and I
12 think I'm past my allotted 30 minutes, and I apologize for
13 that, but I thought we could address some of the questions
14 up front.
15 So this is a multi venue family entertainment
16 facility. Yes, we are going to have simulcast betting
17 there. We need the revenue to support the youth
18 facilities. That is indicative of horse racing. Most
19 county fairs have horse racing. We have been perfectly up
20 front with this. This is not a casino, which has been a
21 rumor from day one. This thing has been in the works for a
22 long long time, way before proposal one. So you cannot make
23 this a casino. It is illegal; it is illegal. I want to
24 make that perfectly clear. That is a constitutional
25 amendment. You would have to have state and local vote to
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1 overturn that. So whoever thinks it is, I'm sorry, but
2 you're wrong.
3 So I'll turn the podium over to the chairman, and
4 he can go from here. And if I could, could I add some
5 closing remarks at the end of the session?
6 MR. MARTINEZ: Sure.
7 MR. LANGE: Okay, thanks.
8 MR. MARTINEZ: A couple of quick comments before
9 we have anyone make public comments, and I forgot to
10 announce before, but you should know that because this is a
11 very important meeting for both parties, the applicant and
12 the public, we have a court reporter here. That's important
13 for you to know because the court reporter, a court
14 stenographer takes verbatim notes of everything that's said,
15 and we want to make sure when we deliberate to make our
16 decision that we have any and all facts at our disposal, so
17 that's the purpose of having a court reporter.
18 As you make comments, do not make them to your
19 neighbor. You address them to the chair; that is me. If I
20 feel the need to redirect the question, say to Mr. Lange,
21 the applicant, if it relates to him, I will do so.
22 Please, no side conversations. I strongly
23 request, as I made before, be respectful of each and every
24 other's comments for or against the proposal. No side
25 conversations. If feel the need to have a discussion,
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1 again, please feel free to step outside in the lobby and
2 have your discussion.
3 We will now begin public comments. I had an
4 individual approach me so I'll make that announcement. If
5 there are individuals here that are represented by a group,
6 10 or 15 people, or whatever, and you wish to have that
7 person be your spokesperson, please just let me know, and I
8 will be glad to do that. The reason that becomes important
9 because we are limiting each speaker to three minutes. If
10 you're representing a group, the chair will allow you to
11 have a little bit more time to make your presentation.
12 I had one individual approach me that wants to
13 speak on behalf of a group, Attorney, Mrs. Denise Smith, am
14 I pronouncing it right?
15 MS. SMITH: LeFave.
16 MR. MARTINEZ: LeFave Smith. And you are welcome
17 to take the podium now.
18 MS. LEFAVE SMITH: Good evening. I'm here to
19 address the Planning Commission, as are all the other people
20 behind me. These comments are for you, not for Mr. Lange.
21 You cannot recommend the approval of the special
22 use permit that Mr. Lange has requested because it is
23 contrary to the Windsor Township Charter ordinances and your
24 own special permits rules. Let me explain.
25 One of the purposes of Windsor zoning ordinances
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1 is to lessen congestion on public streets and highways. For
2 the 2003 horse racing season, the O.R.C. reported that the
3 average daily attendance at a horse racing track in Michigan
4 was 594 people. With an average attendance of 594 people
5 per day, in addition to the employees who work at this
6 development, the proposed development will not lessen
7 congestion on the public streets and highways. On the
8 contrary, congestion will increase, and with the current
9 configuration of Lansing Road, particularly the intersection
10 at Pinch Highway, public streets and highways will become
11 more hazardous with this amount of traffic.
12 Any use that creates a nuisance or damage to
13 adjoining property not permitted in any district. Your own
14 ordinances say that.
15 The construction or operation of a horse racing
16 track on this property will be a substantial and
17 unreasonable adverse impact on neighboring property owners'
18 use and adjoining other properties as well as their quality
19 of life.
20 The proposed development will severely disturb the
21 peace and tranquility of neighboring property owners who
22 will be subjected to unreasonable noise generated from the
23 racetrack and events held there. Glare from lights, odor
24 from the horse manure, which is projected to be 12,500
25 pounds a day, unless those extra 600 horses come, and you
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1 can double that, and exhaust fumes from the vehicles
2 transporting employees and customers to and from the
3 development.
4 Construction of the horse racing development,
5 accessory buildings and related parking will require the
6 paving of large areas of the property. This pavement will
7 create significant water runoff after rains or snow,
8 creating a nuisance and unreasonably affecting the
9 environment in neighboring areas.
10 In an M-1 or M-2 district, the emission of odors,
11 matter in readily detectable quantities at any point along
12 the lot lines is prohibited. That's what your ordinances
13 say.
14 It's estimated that 12,500 pounds of horse manure
15 will be generated each day, along with the order of the
16 horse urine that will be produced from this amount of horses
17 on the property, how detectable do you think that will be at
18 the lot line?
19 Also, in an M-1 or M-2 district, any operation
20 producing intense glare must be performed within an
21 enclosure that completely obscures and shields the operation
22 from direct view at any point along the lot line.
23 In addition, exterior lighting must be installed
24 in such a way so that the source of the light is not visible
25 from any bedroom window. One only needs to drive by Swartz
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1 Creek Racetrack to see that Mr. Lange cannot meet this
2 ordinance requirement.
3 The proposed use must be harmonious and in
4 accordance with the general principles and proposals of the
5 competence and development plan and must not change the
6 essential character of the area in which it is proposed.
7 That's your ordinance.
8 The land use plan describes Dimondale and Windsor
9 Township as bedroom communities. Nowhere in the plan is
10 gambling, which will be at this development, as you just
11 heard, contemplated, discussed or permitted. This is most
12 likely because gambling is generally not found in bedroom
13 communities.
14 The proposed use cannot be disturbing to existing
15 uses in the same general vicinity. That's in your
16 ordinance.
17 Current existing uses are predominately
18 residential, and as you will hear tonight, horse racing and
19 gambling will be considered disturbing to neighboring
20 property owners.
21 Finally, and this is very important, the proposed
22 use, activities and conditions of operation cannot be
23 detrimental to any person or property. This is what your
24 ordinance says. It doesn't say Windsor Township resident,
25 it doesn't say Windsor Township property, it says any person
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1 or property.
2 The operation of this development will pollute,
3 impair or destroy the air quality and adversely impact the
4 noise levels of the neighboring residences. By degrading
5 the air and other natural resources, the aggregate effect of
6 this development's operation will lead to a marked decrease
7 in health, safety and welfare of the neighboring
8 residences.
9 Because Mr. Lange's proposal does not meet the
10 requirements under your own ordinances and special use
11 permit rules, you must deny his application. Thank you.
12 JOHN DAHLGREN: My name is John Dahlgren, and I
13 reside at 6120 Royston Road, Potterville, Michigan.
14 Now, I did have a few issues here prepared, but
15 Mr. Lange covered these in his presentation. One of them,
16 he is aware, and obviously everyone is aware, of the
17 declining racetrack. And I'm sorry. I'm looking at things
18 here.
19 I guess what I would like to say is his
20 presentation, it was impressive and it looked nice, but I
21 value the rural aspects of it. Myself and my family, we
22 have a 200 acre farm, and we do everything we can not to
23 develop it. And I would like to see the place stay in rural
24 form. Thank you.
25 MR. MARTINEZ: Next, please. Step up to the
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1 podium.
2 REID HANES: My name is Reid Hanes, and I live at
3 6877 Pinch Highway, Potterville.
4 Now, Mr. Lange has said about all these jobs, 500
5 and some jobs or 600 and some jobs. Okay. Our economy is
6 already in a decline. What he's talking about is putting
7 the money out. How are you going to get the money in to
8 support that? Nobody can afford to go there. They're not
9 going to take nothing in. Thank you.
10 ALAN BECKER: Thank you very much for the
11 opportunity to address this commission. My name is Alan
12 Becker. I live at 6876 Pinch Highway, and I'm a Windsor
13 resident.
14 We moved into our home about 18 years ago. We
15 moved into this location because of its natural beauty, the
16 solitude and peacefulness of the location. We love the
17 smell of the trees and the flowers when they're blooming in
18 the spring and the summer. We love to hear the sound of the
19 birds and croaking frogs in the nearby wetlands. We love to
20 see the night skies all year long.
21 If this racetrack is allowed to locate here, gone
22 are the smells of the blooming flowers and trees replaced by
23 the smells of horse urine and feces, offensive smells of car
24 exhaust and restaurant cooking odors. Gone are the sounds
25 of the birds and frogs replaced by the loud speaker race
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1 announcements and the traffic noise. The night sky won't be
2 visible with all the bright lights of the racetrack and the
3 hotel and restaurant.
4 And I took count today, and there's at least 30
5 houses within a quarter mile of this property, and to say
6 that these houses won't be affected in the ways that the
7 lawyer was talking about this evening I think is either
8 deceiving or foolish.
9 I'm curious. You know, Mr. Lange and all the
10 folks that he had come up in support of his proposition
11 thought this was a great thing, but I'm curious if they
12 would like this operation next to their home. This fellow
13 that lives down in Gross Point, I wonder if he would like it
14 in his neighborhood, or Mr. Lange, would he like it in his
15 neighborhood. Would they like a hog operation or a dump or
16 something like that in their neighborhood. I'm guessing
17 that they wouldn't.
18 So in closing, I would like to say I don't believe
19 they can put in this operation without affecting the quality
20 of the life and adversely affecting the owners around the
21 property. Thank you.
22 JANETTE HALL: My name is Janette Hall. I live at
23 4601 one Pares Road in Windsor Township here in Dimondale.
24 My biggest concern is when they talk about that
25 they're going to have so many other things offered for the
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1 community is they need the income from the horse racetrack
2 to finance and help run that. That is the same money that
3 has been in decline. If the horse race income is already in
4 decline, then, they are not going to be getting that money.
5 For Mr. Gil, who said that he has many people that
6 are interested in coming to this horse park, they can drive
7 30 minutes out to Jackson or 90 minutes east of Flint near
8 Swartz Creek and have the same thing. Thank you.
9 DEAN SULLIVAN: My name is Dean Sullivan, and I'm
10 here on behalf of the Business and Community Institute at
11 Lansing Community College.
12 Mr. Lange approached us some time ago and inquired
13 as to our ability to support with a training program and
14 with the recruitment program the type of jobs he would be
15 creating at the horse park. The answer to that, I'm happy
16 to say, is yes, we can, and yes, we are willing to do that.
17 The important thing to us and I think the thing we
18 would like to say tonight is we work with a lot of
19 manufacturing people. We know G.M. and know the people that
20 are coming into the community, and we work very
21 aggressively, significantly with the Michigan Works people
22 to get other people in the state to help promote those kinds
23 of jobs. Any one of those people will tell you that you can
24 project a decline at the rate of 2 to 4 percent a year for
25 the next 10 years in those types of jobs.
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1 The opportunity that Mr. Lange brings to our
2 community is important to us for several reasons. One of
3 them is 400 to 500 new jobs that don't currently exist in
4 this community. We are also excited because it continues to
5 diversify the job base in the area. I think it's a critical
6 component. And the last thing is it feeds directly into
7 another highly prized industry in the state, and that's
8 tourism.
9 And I would urge simply that we set aside our
10 personal needs and desires to have things stay the way they
11 are and recognize the potential that this opportunity
12 offers. Thank you.
13 PETER OCELLO: My name is Peter Ocello. I'm here
14 on behalf of the Eaton County Mounted Division. I've been a
15 member of the Mounted Division for 15 years.
16 My primary cause is to promote 4-H, horsemanship
17 and horse events in Eaton County, so much so that the
18 Mounted Division has been in existence for 30 years. Our
19 presence anywhere in the county, whether it be parades down
20 at the fair is always welcome. In fact, our agenda has
21 gotten over burdened to the point where we are now enlisting
22 more members to Eaton County.
23 Every year at the fair, which is a very very big
24 operation for the Mounted Division, the biggest question I
25 get from parents are, and I have not been able to answer it
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1 in the last 15 years, is why aren't there better facilities
2 for our kids to promote 4-H in Eaton County. Eaton County
3 is a rural community and in a rural community, horsemanship,
4 agricultural events, whether it be shows of any kind,
5 livestock shows, horse shows, are very very important to the
6 people at fairgrounds. We hear it over and over again. My
7 response to them is I really don't know. Eaton County
8 fairgrounds is not a prime example of a place where the
9 facilities support 4-H. The Mounted Division supports Mr.
10 Lange's attempt to support a 4-H in the county by building
11 this family-oriented structure.
12 One of the other things that the Eaton County
13 Mounted Division has done and continues to do is provide
14 security in Eaton County. We have been told, and you heard
15 it here tonight as well, that in terms of the security, the
16 Eaton County Mounted Division will be at this facility to
17 provide security to the members of that community and the
18 surrounding community.
19 Lastly, I would like to say that many people have
20 made statements about livestock and some of the things, such
21 as urine and fecal material. Eaton County ranks No. 2 with
22 the number of horses in this state just behind Jackson
23 County. You can't be blind to drive down any avenue or any
24 highway in Eaton County, M-50, M-100, and not see horses
25 everywhere. That's because the community supports
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1 horsemanship. This park is a family oriented park. It's
2 designed primarily to support family activities.
3 Second to that, in order to keep the park running,
4 just like any business, and being a small business owner,
5 you have to have cash flow. The small percentage of racing
6 that will occur at this park will provide the youth of the
7 county the opportunity to participate in 4-H events, which
8 they want.
9 So I would urge the board and the members of the
10 community to look at this as a growing point for the people
11 and the children and youth in Eaton County to support
12 agricultural events. If you don't support agricultural
13 events and let this go aside and you don't support rural
14 activities in this community, the next thing that will wind
15 up here is going to be an industrial park. Thank you.
16 MR. MARTINEZ: Again, I'm going to ask very
17 politely, please refrain from clapping. That just takes
18 longer, and we're just going to be here longer, so please
19 refrain.
20 BRENDA HALL: I'm Brenda Hall. I'm from
21 Charlotte. I don't live in this area specifically, but I do
22 live in the rural Charlotte. I was raised on farm, and I
23 still live on a farm.
24 But what I'm here for is with the F.F.A. Team from
25 Charlotte. I was the coach for the Agricultural Issue Team
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1 this year, and I have three of the seven kids from the team
2 here, and they chose Windsor Downs to be their debate
3 issue. And they've been working on this since December, and
4 they thought they were going to have a really hard time with
5 this because they were totally against it at first. They
6 were against gambling. That's all they thought it was.
7 They did tons of research, internets, phone
8 calls. We've visited with the township with Linda. We also
9 had several meeting and phone conversations with Terry Hanks
10 and Dorian Lange. We went out and we looked at the land.
11 We took pictures; we did everything. They put together the
12 pros and cons of this whole thing, both sides, and they
13 changed their opinion. They loved this. This is for the
14 youth of today and tomorrow.
15 You know, I had a whole list of things to tell
16 you, but I'm going to throw it out because I have heard it
17 all. But just to say everybody wants it left the way it
18 is. They want it left agricultural. Well, I just want to
19 say to a few people that were complaining, I live on a swine
20 farm. I love the smell. You are going to have smell if
21 it's agricultural. You are going to have smell if it's
22 factory. Which smell would you prefer? I would rather
23 smell a pig.
24 Also, just so you know, this land is going to be
25 sold. Through everything that we've done, all the research,
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1 this land will be sold, and you have just got to make up
2 your minds which way you want it sold. Do you want it to go
3 Windsor Downs, 92 percent green space and a family place to
4 go and raise your children. I'm so huge into children. I
5 work with the kids all day. I also am a very huge person in
6 4-H and also the F.F.A.
7 Also, you have a choice. Do you want the land
8 sold as Windsor Downs or do you want it a factory with 24
9 hours of noise, lighting and traffic. Which one would you
10 prefer?
11 What is F.F.A.? F.F.A. in the high schools, it
12 used to be called Future Farmers of America, but because our
13 agricultural is dwindling so much, they have had to take the
14 Future Farmers off and just leave it plain F.F.A. And what
15 it is is agricultural leadership programs. They go and do
16 research on agricultural issues just like this.
17 What's best for our community, Windsor Downs or
18 another factory that will close. And with all the robotics
19 going into factories, Windsor Downs will definitely have
20 more jobs out there to offer, so just keep that in mind. If
21 you want it left the way it is, go with agricultural. Don't
22 go with another factory. Thank you.
23 BURNETTE JONES: My name is Burnette Jones. I
24 live at 5935 Nixon Road. I do have a question for both the
25 board and Mr. Lange.
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1 My question to Mr. Lange is that at the last
2 meeting we had on this, he made the statement that he would
3 be willing to purchase anybody's property in the affected
4 area at 20 percent above current value. I want to know if
5 he is a man of his word and would be willing to stand on
6 that if the board passes this?
7 MR. LANGE: Absolutely.
8 MR. JONES: Would you put it in writing?
9 MR. LANGE: I'll write it right now.
10 MR. JONES: My question to the board is I don't
11 think we're doing a very good job of maintaining the roads
12 now. If this park goes in, what assurance do we have that
13 the roads are going to be better than they are?
14 MR. MARTINEZ: The board can't answer that
15 question. That's the Eaton County Road Commission.
16 MR. JONES: The board does pay for chloriding the
17 roads; am I right?
18 MR. MARTINEZ: That's right.
19 MR. JONES: Every year, we have to make phone
20 calls to get it done. It's not done on a timely manner, and
21 it's not done to where it's truly effective. You guys had
22 it done a week or so ago without grading the roads. It's a
23 terrible job. That's where we live today. You're going to
24 bring in 500 plus people a day every day from wherever in
25 the state, and it's going to cause detriment to our roads.
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1 My personal opinion is I would rather see you
2 develop this as a factory, because whatever jobs we created
3 there would be the same people. It wouldn't be 500 or 600
4 people from wherever around the state. It would be these
5 people who live locally. Thank you.
6 CHER ASH: Good evening. My name is Cher Ash. I
7 live at 5539 Chubby Drive in Windsor Township. Chubby Drive
8 is located exactly within 20 feet of the proposed race
9 park. There is no neighborhood that will be more closely
10 and personally affected by this change on a very personal
11 level day after day after day than ours.
12 I'm actually not entirely against this idea at
13 all. I think it sounds like a lovely facility and they were
14 going to do great things for the community.
15 I have a question that I've rephrased in the form
16 of a comment. I'm curious what will happen to the immediate
17 surrounding area of this proposed facility. My little
18 drive, Chubby Drive, triangulates Pinch Highway and Lansing
19 Road. It's a shortcut, if you will, from one road to the
20 other.
21 What's going to happen to the houses on that road?
22 Am I going to be looking at the back of a strip mall in five
23 years because of the new zoning that's been instituted? Am
24 I going to have horses going up and down my little private
25 drive? Is there going to be some sort of measure taken to
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1 protect the current residents who may want to stay in their
2 neighborhood against too much outside activity. It's
3 something to think about. I don't know if there's an answer
4 to that now or not.
5 MR. MARTINEZ: That's one issue that we'll
6 probably take a close look at, what happens to that private
7 road.
8 MS. ASH: That private road is the only one there,
9 literally. There is only three people that are going to be
10 any closer to this thing than I am from my driveway. Thank
11 you, very much.
12 MR. MARTINEZ: Thank you.
13 FRAN ANDERSON: My name is Fran Anderson, and I
14 live at 2678 Gunnel Road. I am a Windsor Township resident.
15 I want to say that I support the proposed horse
16 park. My children have all grown up through 4-H, and my
17 children have grown up with no problems, no drugs, no
18 running around, no going to malls. The positive influence
19 of 4-H in their lives has been wonderful, but it's becoming
20 harder and harder to find places where these children can
21 show. I am also the M.I.H.A. coach for Eaton Rapids High
22 School. We have almost 2,200 riders in the state right now,
23 and growing by 200 to 300 riders per year. It's a huge,
24 huge sport, and it keeps the kids off the streets, but there
25 are fewer and fewer places because the fairgrounds aren't
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1 big enough to house these events anymore. The state
2 fairgrounds are a disaster, if any of you have ever been
3 down there. As far as the feces and urine management,
4 personally, I don't know what they do with it, but I have
5 been to many very large horse shows that have had 700 or 800
6 horses, and there was no smell, so obviously, they do manage
7 the feces properly. Thank you.
8 MICHELLE MYERS: My name is Michelle Myers. I
9 live at 5882 Nixon Road in Potterville, and it's in Windsor
10 Township as well.
11 In April, my husband and I accepted the board's
12 invitation to attend a workshop that was designed to create
13 a vision for Windsor Township. One of the primary purposes
14 of this workshop was to become more visionary rather than
15 reactionary. As a result, we did craft a vision statement
16 and are in the process of finalizing the wording to present
17 to the public for comment.
18 I recommend that we do not approve any projects of
19 this magnitude until this visionary work is completed. We
20 need to determine what we want our township to be before
21 making a decision that will change our community so
22 dramatically. Thank you.
23 HELEN CARTER: My name is Helen Carter, and I live
24 at 7534 Pinch Highway.
25 I strongly oppose the building of a racetrack in
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1 Windsor Township.
2 According to Mr. Grones in the O.R.C. office, as
3 of June 1st, Mr. Lange has not officially changed the name
4 of his project, so let's call it what it is, a racetrack.
5 And if the racetrack is such a good idea, why are Mr. Lange
6 and his supporters, including District House Representative
7 Rick Jones, still threatening us by saying there is a mobile
8 home park just waiting to be built on the property if we
9 don't go along with this project. I say bring it on.
10 The choice is 500 horses or 500 modular homes; no
11 contest. I choose the modular homes; they smell great. I
12 am not against development, but I can not condone
13 eliminating a whole forest of trees, eliminating wetlands
14 and polluting Lake Interstate for the development that only
15 a few will enjoy, and statistics show it will be doomed to
16 failure within five years, leaving another blight on our
17 community.
18 Also, as a resident of this township, I pay and
19 have paid my property taxes every year for the last 53
20 years. Currently, Mr. Lange owes over $386,000 in back
21 taxes on a parcel of land in Windsor Township on Creyts
22 Road. Maybe when he is getting his loan he ought to include
23 a little extra.
24 I strongly encourage the Planning Commission and
25 the Township Board to consider all the facts very carefully
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1 before making a decision that can affect the future of
2 Windsor Charter Township. This board cannot afford any more
3 mistakes.
4 May I suggest you take a drive down Lansing Road,
5 visit the Hawaii Health Spa, the Velvet Touch, take notice
6 of the trucks parked illegally in the old flea market
7 grounds, and if the township is in such financial need, they
8 might try collecting some outstanding tax.
9 May I also remind you that we the citizens of
10 Windsor Charter Township elected you to represent us, not
11 the residents of Eaton Rapids or residents outside of
12 Windsor Charter Township. And if anyone would like to see
13 me about the opposition later, I would be glad to take your
14 phone number. Thank you, very much.
15 KEN LITTLE: My name is Ken Little. I live at
16 6682 Pinch Highway, Windsor Township.
17 Traffic coming from M-100 is all going to go right
18 down Pinch Highway. You have got the end of Pinch Highway
19 covered; what about the rest of it? I'm opposed against
20 this horse track for all the reasons you've heard.
21 TOM COOK: Mr. Chairman, members of the board. My
22 name is Tom Cook. I'm vice president of the Lansing
23 Regional Chamber of Commerce. We represent the Tri-County
24 area, Eaton, Ingham, Clinton Counties.
25 One of the charges of the Chamber of Commerce is
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1 economic development, and certainly this project is going to
2 be a significant impact on that measure.
3 These are 400 to 500 jobs that are going to be
4 brought in, and it's been spoken about previously, but I
5 want people to also remember these are 400 to 500 jobs that
6 are not going to be able to be out sourced. They're not
7 going to be able to be sent to China or to Mexico. These
8 are jobs that are going to be staying here in this community
9 and make an impact.
10 I'd also like to say that many of the concerns
11 that people have brought up are the same concerns we hear in
12 other areas as far as concerns about infrastructure, safety,
13 things of that nature. I think Mr. Lange's presentation and
14 his meetings with people have shown his outreach as far as
15 taking on those circumstances. Many communities, for
16 example, don't have an opportunity like this. Many
17 communities are looking for the idea of having somebody
18 coming in and invest in their community. And I think Mr.
19 Lange has shown that he is a good partner. He has shown
20 that his interests are for the community, and for the whole
21 region, I think this presents an opportunity. I have two
22 small children myself. I would love to have an opportunity
23 to be able to participate in a facility like this. I think
24 it gives a unique experience. It will be a tourist
25 destination, which will generate dollars not only to the
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1 racetrack itself but small business in the township as well
2 as the surrounding area.
3 I appreciate the time you have given me today, and
4 I would like to see you support this project.
5 ALAINA O'NEILL: Hi. My name is Alaina O'Neill
6 I'm 18 and a recent graduate. I live at 9477 Nixon Road.
7 I think this is a great idea in a lot of different
8 facets, because I have shown horses in 4-H and the M.I.H.A.,
9 Equestrian Team for over six years, and I know personally
10 that it's so hard to find a place to show that's decent,
11 because I've had several times where I couldn't go to a show
12 because my parents didn't think the grounds were good enough
13 for my horse to be on. I mean, these are expensive animals,
14 they need to be taken care of, and they just weren't
15 suitable. So I'm very excited about the prospect of having
16 decent grounds that are safe for our horses.
17 Also, as a recent graduate, I love the prospect of
18 new jobs. I currently work doing landscaping at a park in
19 Jackson, and so this is the kind of job that I would love to
20 have, and I know it's a great job for high school students
21 and also for senior citizens doing the mowing and things
22 like that.
23 Also, my father owns an Alpaca ranch, and I know
24 that he has to travel frequently to Kentucky or hours and
25 hours away to do these shows because there isn't a lot of
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1 places around here, and it's a new booming business and this
2 would be great for that, also.
3 I know Dorian personally as my soccer coach, and I
4 can vouch for his integrity, and I know he is going to give
5 his best to do this and make it succeed, and it will just be
6 a great opportunity for all of us in the area.
7 I also live right near the vicinity of the
8 stables, and I love it. I don't know how people can
9 complain. I don't mind the smell. I don't even notice it.
10 And I love knowing that I'm that close to an agricultural
11 center because that is the founding of our nation, and I
12 think we need to embrace it. I don't understand why people
13 are so scared away by a little smell or something because I
14 think it's so worth it.
15 And I would also like to say to those people who
16 are upset about their property being close to it or the
17 lights or the smell that it's a harsh reality that I hate to
18 point out, but if you want privacy and you want to see the
19 birds and the bees, in this day and age, you're going to
20 have to go buy 50 acres and put your house right in the
21 center of it, because you can't control the property around
22 you. The only way to control the property around you is to
23 buy it, and I don't see anyone jumping up here to buy this
24 property, so I think Dorian has every right to do what he
25 wants with it.
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1 So everyone has a nice night, and thank you.
2 WILLIAM SMITH: My name is William Smith, and I'm
3 just kind of curious -- 5644 Nixon Road -- why they need a
4 sub station out there. If the crime rate don't go up, they
5 won't need nothing, right? And you know, I'm just so
6 curious why they need a sub station out there if the crime
7 rate don't go up. I'm definitely against it. Down with
8 it.
9 ED CONGER: I'm Ed Conger, 6057 Pinch Highway.
10 I have heard an awful lot. I've been sitting here
11 ever since this meeting started, and I have heard a lot
12 about horses and horses and horses and horses to the point
13 where I think we're almost to the point where the other end
14 of the horse -- I'm sorry.
15 I've lived in this area practically all my life on
16 Pinch Highway, not on this end of it but the other end of
17 it. My dad was a farmer. There was 14 of us kids, 11 boys
18 and three girls. We knew what farming was all about, and
19 the thing that I hated the most on the farm, I hated to
20 clean the hog pen. I hated that. There ain't nothing worse
21 than a hog pen.
22 But I'm here because I care about this community
23 more than I care about a bunch of horses running across the
24 railroad track, and anybody that lives on Pinch Highway, on
25 the east end of Pinch Highway, anybody that lives on the
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1 east end of Pinch Highway certainly knows that that road
2 needs more than a hundred feet of concrete on the east end
3 of it.
4 JOHN LOGAN: My name is John Logan. I live at
5 4200 Meridian Road in Okemos and also in Harbor Springs,
6 Michigan.
7 I'm here tonight to represent the Great Lakes
8 Cutting Horse Association. I haven't been out to the site,
9 but I thought it might be helpful to explain what a typical
10 show would be like, because we have come to Dorian's groups
11 and asked them to allow us, if they get a license, to hold
12 our shows in this facility. We have cutting horse
13 enthusiasts in the State of Michigan, Indiana, Ohio,
14 Kentucky, and that makes up the Great Lakes Cutting Horse
15 Association.
16 There are literally hundreds of Cutting
17 enthusiasts that are looking for facilities like the one
18 they're proposing, and I thought it might be helpful to
19 explain that when we come to a town like this, first of all,
20 we're going to use your major highways, not your back roads,
21 because our rigs are 40 to 50 feet long. And when we come
22 to your town, we go to your restaurants, we stay in your
23 hotels, and we spend money.
24 The other thing I thought might be helpful for you
25 to understand is that for about a third of us, we bring our
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1 rigs and we stay right in those rigs. And I can tell you
2 that Gil and Dorian have no thoughts of having this facility
3 ever smell in any way, shape or form. There are ways to
4 take care of that. When we bring our rigs in, we put our
5 canopies out, put our lawn chairs out, and we stay within
6 100 feet of those expensive horses and then go to your
7 restaurants, and we spend money in your town. So I'm not
8 here for the political part, I just thought it might be
9 helpful to understand that when we come to town, we spend
10 money. We're hospitable people. We're there promoting our
11 sport, and it's a quality facility that they're proposing.
12 Thank you.
13 (UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER) Can you explain what a
14 Cutting horse is, explain that term?
15 MR. LOGAN: A cutting horse competition is where
16 we ride into a herd of cattle, separate one cow, and that
17 horse is turned over to hold that cow from getting back in
18 the herd. And by the way, we typically, when we're putting
19 a show on in a facility year after year, we go to the local
20 farmers that are raising cattle, and we either buy or rent
21 their cattle for a promotion like that. So it's family
22 friendly and literally big money.
23 JOANN Brunette: My name is Joann rimette and I
24 live at 440 Park Meadows in Delta Township.
25 Our family has lived in Delta Township for 49
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1 years, for many years now. Businesses, small and large,
2 have been leaving the Lansing area. Today, unemployment has
3 reached seven percent, and there is very little sign that it
4 will diminish any time soon.
5 My husband, Charlie, and I have raised our family
6 here, and we continue to live here, plus, it's home. We
7 have seen this whole area grow and prosper and have
8 witnessed some hard times like now with a high rate of
9 unemployment.
10 I see great promise in the idea of a development
11 containing a racetrack that offers thoroughbred horse
12 racing, indoor and outdoor horse shows, exhibitions, rodeos,
13 4-H events, horse and other conventions, agricultural
14 exhibitions, livestock shows, house pet shows and
15 exhibitions and youth events and a new hotel and much much
16 more.
17 Certainly, all these ideas point to the fact that
18 here are multiple opportunities, opportunities for jobs and
19 entertainment activities for our young people. We must make
20 way for this fantastic idea of Dorian Lange to develop for
21 future generalizations. So let us keep our young people
22 here. We have a brand new high tech branch of Lansing
23 Community College right here in our back yard. The
24 possibilities of programs such as veterinary technicians,
25 for example, will be available if we say yes to Michigan
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1 Horse Park. We need jobs. We need wholesome entertainment
2 and activities to keep our kids here. We want to attract
3 tourists, vacationers and visitors, some of them on their
4 way up north. Let's invite them to stop here first and
5 spend some time here at Capitol City. Let us build it, and
6 they will come.
7 REBECCA NEVAI my name is Rebekah Nevai, and I
8 live on Pinch Highway directly across from the proposed
9 development, so I believe I would be one of the people
10 that's directly affected by this development.
11 I'm a realist. I'm not here to say that this land
12 should remain rural. It's private land, and it will be
13 developed in the near future. The question is how will it
14 impact the community.
15 And before I make further comments, I would like
16 to remind the Commission respectfully that they have been
17 duly nominated to represent the people of Windsor Township
18 and not further the interests of those who have horsemanship
19 as a hobby.
20 The question is not whether the development will
21 be economically feasible. The question is whether it's good
22 for the community. The question is how it affects those
23 directly.
24 I have met with Mr. Dorian Lange in the past and
25 discussed previous plans for this development. Our house
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1 will be directly across from a parking area, which was also
2 in previous plans. I am disappointed to see that it's still
3 in the current plans, because I had spoken with Mr. Lange in
4 the past regarding the fact that essentially tailgate
5 parking will be 20 feet in front of my home. If the rodeo,
6 if one of the largest spectator sports, and my home is
7 directly across from parking, then, do I look forward to
8 partying all night long 20 feet in front of my house. How
9 will that affect my property value and quality of life?
10 That is what your charge is to decide, not where someone can
11 show horses, where a quality of a track is but how it will
12 affect our property values.
13 And comparing this to Sundance Riding Stable is
14 like comparing an apple to an orange. There's no
15 grandstands, there's no motel, there's no overnight parking
16 where people can party all night long. And I do agree that
17 it is questionable why we would need an outpost if we
18 believe there won't be any problems.
19 TOM NEVAI: My name is Tom Nevai. I live at 7220
20 Pinch Highway. Rebecca is my wife.
21 We moved here back in 1998 hoping to settle down
22 in the community because it was a smaller, quiet community,
23 and we were hoping to some day raise a family. If this big
24 establishment is allowed to go forward, it's not only to
25 affect our quality of life but the quality of life for all
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1 the residents in the community.
2 Now, Mr. Lange has mentioned in the past that
3 there won't be any gambling, he has no intention of
4 gambling. However, I did pose the question in one of the
5 times that we had met, do you plan to sell this
6 establishment, and he said the possibility is open. So
7 going with that idea, is it possible for him to sell this
8 establishment to a casino and then further the gambling in
9 our community. If this is allowed to go forward, it's hard
10 to tell which way our community will go. We're at a
11 critical point right now. Industry is just starting to
12 build up in the community.
13 We need to as a community make a decision on
14 whether or not this is a right choice. Where do we want to
15 see our community go. Do we want to see this turn into
16 something that is big city and crime is on the increase, or
17 do we want to see this remain a smaller community with the
18 correct businesses in place to further our economic
19 development and still maintain the quality of life for the
20 residents in the community. Thank you.
21 RON FITZGERALD: Hi. I'm Ron Fitzgerald. I live
22 in Eaton County. I have lived there for 60 years, give or
23 take a couple years I was up in Blanchard. I have 36
24 thoroughbreds of my own. I have mares, stallions, six
25 babies this year, and I have been to many tracks around the
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1 world. The tracks are surrounded by very nice homes,
2 beautiful residential areas, they don't stick. The
3 thoroughbred track people are good people, they're hard
4 working people, they would bring a lot of money into this
5 area.
6 I'm not real prepared for this because I didn't
7 know this meeting was going until this morning, I was told
8 about it. I would like to come to more of them. I would
9 invite any of you to come to my farm and see what I take
10 care of and how I do it.
11 I work for General Motors. They have been good to
12 me. The State of Michigan has not been good to the horsemen
13 for a good many years. We don't have a decent track to run
14 thoroughbreds on. When DRC closed, we ended up up at
15 Muskegon, a half mile track. Our thoroughbreds are big
16 horses. They need a big track, a mile track to run on.
17 It's like asking a six-foot-two person to run a track race
18 in a room this size instead of on a track. It's hard on
19 their knees and their joints. We do not have a decent track
20 in Michigan. And if you folks think that it's going to hurt
21 your valuation of your properties, I'll invite you to go to
22 any track and look at the surrounding areas. I don't know
23 about the standard bred tracks, but the thoroughbred tracks,
24 like Churchill Downs, go down there, you see any junkie
25 houses around, no; all prime quality property. Property
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1 values go up like crazy when a track goes in. And as far as
2 what was just said about it being a gambling place, a
3 casino, I don't know how many of you people in this room
4 voted yes for Proposal One last year, but if you don't want
5 casinos in your area, you better think twice about voting
6 yes on Proposal One. There are 18 Indian casinos in the
7 State of Michigan right now, five more, I was told, are on
8 the drawing board. There aren't any casinos in our
9 racetrack. And I feel people that are against this really
10 haven't opened their eyes and read the bottom lines and find
11 out where all the racing money goes. It supports our fairs,
12 our Boy Scouts, Y.M.C.A., Y.W.C.A., many things, our
13 schools. Look at our schools how bad off they are right
14 now. Granholm is scratching for every penny she can get,
15 and you people are worried about having a little extra
16 traffic in your area, and it's sad.
17 Thank you very much for listening to me. I live
18 at the end of Haslett Road and Morris Road, and you're more
19 than welcome to come out. And I have a 60-acre farm, it's
20 full of horses, and I put a lot of money into the state.
21 JENNIFER QUACK: Hello. My name is Jennifer
22 Quack, and I live 9456 Vermontville Highway. I'm a resident
23 of Windsor Township.
24 I support this proposal for building this whole
25 horse park. I myself have a horse. I have grown up in a
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1 horse family, basically. I have had horses all my life. I
2 don't think they smell, but I do understand the other side,
3 because when I come home my husband automatically turns up
4 his nose at me.
5 But my thing is that I think this is much better
6 than having a factory or even a trailer park. The smell is
7 going to be less, and I would consider better than either of
8 the other proposals. This is an agricultural business,
9 which is good for the community, good for the area. It will
10 generate a lot of manure, but there's ways to get around
11 that. It's great fertilizers, I'll say that.
12 The racetrack part of it is only a part of it,
13 from my understanding, and with all the other parts coming
14 together, this should make a great complex. I don't know if
15 many people who don't have horses understand this or not,
16 but reigning, cutting, dressage, all of these events, it's
17 big money, big, big money.
18 We have a big complex here. M.S.U. is nice,
19 nothing against M.S.U. I go to the M.S.U. expo, the expos
20 in Novi, but they're small. I travel down to Ohio to go to
21 the equine fair down in Ohio. I'm going to the one in
22 Kentucky in the fall. They're huge. If we had something
23 like that in Michigan, people would travel from all over to
24 get here. And as I said, the other disciplines, all the
25 disciplines of riding, hundreds of thousands of dollars in
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1 just each of the outfits that come to these. This would
2 generate a lot of revenue, as I believe the cutting horse
3 gentleman mentioned. People would stay here, eat at our
4 restaurants. It would help the community, I believe.
5 And I think from the traffic standpoint, if you
6 have a trailer park, if you have another factory, it's all
7 cars. If it's a factory, it's semis, so it's going to be
8 worse.
9 So I am very much in support of the horse park.
10 Thank you.
11 MR. MARTINEZ: We'll take one more speaker, and
12 then we're going to take a 10-minute break.
13 CARL GIBSON: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'm Carl
14 Gibson. I live at 6418 News Road, Charlotte, which is only
15 three miles from here, my home. I live between here and the
16 proposed racetrack.
17 I was Eaton County's first parks and recreation
18 director back in the '70s and '80s. Philosophically, I am
19 in favor of this project for the recreation and tourism
20 standpoint.
21 Because I came to this commission in the late '80s
22 to complain about another project I felt was being hoisted
23 on us, which was the asphalt plant, I was asked to be a
24 member of that commission for seven years, so you have a
25 tough job. I'm not going to say yes or no whether I'm in
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1 favor of this project, because you've got a tough job, and
2 I've been there, but I'm going to ask some questions that I
3 haven't felt anybody has raised.
4 Where is the water going to come from this place?
5 There is no water infrastructure in Windsor Township. Every
6 time there's a development, that's the biggest thing is how
7 many deep wells four to five hundred feet must be put in for
8 either a home or for some development.
9 Then, sewer. I'm not talking about the sewer for
10 the horses, but there's 500 people working there and all the
11 guests. Is there going to be sewer infrastructure? Windsor
12 Township doesn't have it. Will it come in from Delta,
13 Denton Township. I'm not saying I'm against it because of
14 those things, but I want to hear some answers about those.
15 I'm concerned about the highway. You're talking
16 about not much change to the highway, but the day that this
17 issue came out in the State Journal in 2004 was the same
18 weekend of the death of that person on Pinch Highway, didn't
19 have a marked intersection for the train. So there will be
20 train and people accidents generated at night in addition.
21 That's my opinion.
22 Where I live, I get a lot of feedback from noise
23 from the highway. Interstate 69 is just half a mile away
24 and the railroad tracks a half a mile away. I don't have
25 central air, so I have my windows open at night, but I can
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1 hear every train whistle for three miles around. But I'm
2 concerned will there be night broadcasts that will generate
3 and bounce off those hills that will be an intrusion in the
4 area.
5 Mainly, I want to say you got a tough job. I want
6 you to really think hard what you're doing, yes or no on
7 this problem.
8 Windsor Township in the late '90s had a survey of
9 its residents, and the general flavor was we want to retain
10 our rural nature. Ever since then, we have had the G.M.
11 Plants come in, even though that's officially in Delta
12 Township. The biggest obstruction or change is the CSX
13 railroad purchasing all the property and moving homes out.
14 That scares me a heck of a lot more than anything from this
15 racetrack.
16 So I want to make sure that this Planning
17 Commission is taking their job seriously and keeping us
18 informed. I believe you are, but I'm scared of all these
19 projects coming around.
20 The Capitol Sports Complex is not too much
21 different from this project here, and I don't see that
22 that's been a detriment from the community.
23 There's both sides, and I just want to make sure
24 that all these issues are taken into consideration, water,
25 sewer, noise and lights. Thank you.
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1 MR. MARTINEZ: We'll now take a 10-minute recess
2 and reconvene at 9:00 o'clock sharp. Thank you.
3 (Recess followed).
4 MR. MARTINEZ: The meeting is now reconvened.
5 May I please have your attention. Mr. Lange has
6 asked for 30 seconds to make some comments relative to the
7 manure issue.
8 MR. LANGE: Looks like we've got a lot of empty
9 seats, so they must be out having a smoke or whatever.
10 We have had a lot of comments about manure and
11 odor, and trust me, I have had horses all my life. I have
12 shoveled my share of horse shit. Okay. So that's putting
13 it very blunt. I will take it back, horse manure. I have
14 shoveled a lot of horse manure, and I want to take 30
15 seconds to address that issue.
16 The horse manure, the horse stalls are cleaned
17 daily, sometimes twice daily, and the manure and the straw
18 is put into the manure bin and is trucked off the property
19 daily. There is no accumulation, there is no runoff. We
20 have purchasers for that manure. We have taken a waste and
21 turned it into a profitability. We have some mushroom
22 farmers here, they pay a hundred dollars a load. It's put
23 in manure bins, it's sealed, it's trucked off the property
24 every day so there is no accumulation. Thank you.
25 PAUL KANUTH: My name is Paul Kanuth, and I live
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1 in West Bloomfield. We feel that the horse park would be
2 essential for us to move forward and that we are here to
3 support this evening the project. Thank you.
4 SALLY HARRISON: Hi. My name is Sally Harrison.
5 I live at 141 Quincy Street, Dimondale, Windsor Township.
6 I'm thankful to this board to listen to all of us
7 and to hear both sides of this question. I am also thankful
8 for this blue paper that has gone around, for Helen Carter
9 who spoke and Denise LaFeve Smith who spoke.
10 I would like to read to you the minutes from the
11 paper. "It is previously announced that a well-known refuse
12 service in the Lansing area has agreed do handle the removal
13 of horse manure from the Michigan Horse Park. Fiction. A
14 member of the Friends of Windsor Charter Township, which is
15 this blue paper, contacted two local and major refuse
16 companies. Not only did they not agree to handle the
17 removal of this horse manure, they have never heard of
18 Dorian Lange.
19 The Michigan Horse Park design includes 500 horse
20 stalls. Fact. It is also a fact that one horse produces,
21 and we discussed this, 25 pounds of horse manure per day,
22 and if you do the math, it's a lot of horse manure.
23 In 2000, the U.S. Government sued the Portland
24 Meadows Racetrack saying it failed to control the horse
25 manure from the 950 horses lodged there during the racing
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1 season.
2 Fact No. 3, or Item No. 3. Dorian Lange
3 previously announced that the 4-H was in support of the
4 Michigan Horse Park and would participate in events held
5 there. Fiction. Mr. Lange no longer announces that the 4-H
6 is supporting his development, rather, he states that the
7 4-H type groups support his development, and who might these
8 groups be?
9 A member of the Friends of Windsor Charter
10 Township contacted the local 4-H. They do not support the
11 Michigan Horse Park and won't so long as alcohol and
12 gambling are involved. Alcohol has not even been addressed
13 tonight. What's going to be sold in the concession stands
14 and the gift shops.
15 No. 4. Dorian Lange states that at least 400 jobs
16 will be created from the Michigan Horse Park when it opens.
17 Fiction. While Mr. Lange may hire 400 people to staff the
18 horse park, the people he hires will simply be a result of a
19 job shift opening. Michigan Horse Park will cause competing
20 horse racetracks to decline, and jobs will be lost at those
21 racetracks. There's certainly no guarantee that any of
22 these 400 jobs will be filled by Windsor Charter Township
23 residents.
24 Thank you for listening to me, and think this
25 through. I think our lawyer lady, Denise, made a great deal
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1 of points going through the way this is written out, and you
2 cannot follow through on this and not break your own rules.
3 Thank you.
4 KAREN HATHON: Good evening, ladies and
5 Gentlemen. My name is Karen Hathon, and I'm an Eaton County
6 resident. I live over between Mulliken and Sunfield.
7 I have been a horse owner for many many years, and
8 I can tell you my barn does not stink.
9 What I'm really disappointed in hearing this
10 evening is about the youth and the lack of wanting to
11 support our young people in our county.
12 As Mr. Ocello mentioned, this a rural county. We
13 have many youths in this county who are horse people.
14 Horses keep kids out of trouble. I have worked with
15 youngsters for a number of years, both in the school system
16 and the legal system, and I'm here to tell you that horses
17 and kids bind, and they need a place to be able to take
18 their animals and work with them, show them with pride, show
19 them what they can do in terms of caring for them, give them
20 a purpose in life.
21 And I fully support this Michigan Horse Park
22 because Michigan does not have a facility that is anywheres
23 near adequate to take care of the horse people that Michigan
24 has, and I think if you turn this down, I think you are
25 making a big mistake. Thank you.
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1 SHARON POWELL: My name is Sharon Powell. I
2 reside at 2939 Bradly Road, Vermontville.
3 I have been a 4-H leader for 49 years and a horse
4 leader for 22. I'm for this 100 percent. I have been
5 involved with our county fair. We have run out of space.
6 There is no more room. We have to limit the amount of
7 animals that kids are bringing in because there is no room
8 for them. And I think I really looked into this. It looks
9 like to me like a good family thing. And I have worked with
10 lots of handicap kids riding horses, and it's amazing what
11 they can do for them.
12 I don't think people realize how much money this
13 can bring in. I have a friend that's running a concession,
14 and he brought in $26,000 for Saturday and Sunday. That's a
15 lot of money for two days.
16 And I am for this park 100 percent. Thank you.
17 JENINE PETTRA: Hello. My name is Jenine Pettra,
18 4615 Bunker Road in Mason, and I'm the owner of Arrowhead
19 Farm, and I do the horse thing as a business and as a
20 living.
21 It's true that there are very few places to go
22 that are safe for your horse and for your kids. The
23 condition of these fairgrounds and other places we go to is
24 something else.
25 I also would like to say that I am the person that
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1 does the No. 1 sport in the world, professional rodeo. I
2 barrel race. Believe me, when I go to rodeos, I don't
3 tailgate and beer gate. And I'll tell you what, I would
4 rather come here locally in my area when I go to rodeos.
5 These people come to watch. We spend a ton of money, the
6 horse people, and I don't think the non horse people realize
7 this is what this is all about. I think there is a lot of
8 closed mindedness here. I see both sides also, but I think
9 you need to consider in the future what it can do for our
10 youth. Pretty soon, we are not going to have opportunities
11 like this. We will have no more youth. Youths are our
12 future.
13 I want to say this is my life, and I think people
14 don't realize what working with animals can do for young
15 people. It teaches them discipline, respect and many more
16 things I can't tell you right now, but there is so much
17 involved in it. And I want you to take this opportunity. I
18 wish this was in my back yard. Thank you.
19 MIKE CHAPPELL: Good evening. My name is Mike
20 Chappell. I live at 136 Cherry Street in Dimondale.
21 A couple of questions. One is what land use or
22 zoning classification might allow a horse park by right?
23 MR. MARTINEZ: Nothing by right.
24 (Discussion off the record.)
25 MR. CHAPPELL: Does that mean no matter where it
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1 is, it will take a special use permit? What impact will the
2 proposed project have on industrial uses in that location?
3 Since it is in an industrial area, how will it impact future
4 uses of the area for industrial as it's designated?
5 MR. MARTINEZ: A couple of things. If you could
6 keep your comments to public comments as opposed to specific
7 questions. I couldn't answer that question as to how that's
8 going to affect that economically if another kind of future
9 development would come through.
10 MR. CHAPPEL: The question put before this
11 audience is for the use of the property which is zoned
12 industrial, so how would a horse park impact the rest of
13 that area that is designated industrial? So that needs to
14 be considered. Thank you.
15 MICHELLE FRAZIER: My name is Michelle Frazier. I
16 live at 7070 Pinch Highway, Charlotte..
17 If the horse park doesn't pass the board, they
18 need to have a good justification. If people are so upset
19 about something going in, the people should have all gotten
20 together. They still can, I suppose, get together and buy
21 it yourself and nothing will go up in the surrounding area.
22 I'm not rich. I do care about the value of my
23 home. If you don't think someone is going to put a bar in
24 there -- they walk around over there on their lunch hour
25 drinking and drinking afterwards. I don't know how people
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1 can say that horse people drink. Factory people drink, and
2 that will cause more problems. Something is going to go in
3 there. Talk about traffic, noise and lights, you will have
4 tons of it.
5 I want to say that the people who have a second
6 generation family farm, they are saying they are fighting it
7 because it will bring noise, traffic, lights and land values
8 down. They are a mile and a half over there on Royston.
9 They are not here on Pinch. I don't want a factory there.
10 I definitely want a horse park. Thank you.
11 KATHRYN GEARHART: I'm Kathryn Gearhart. My
12 address is 9381 Vermontville Highway in Dimondale.
13 I personally have been a resident of this township
14 over 10 years. My family has been here so long their
15 cabinet is over in the Woldumar Nature Center.
16 I do also own horses. I put on large horse shows,
17 and it's difficult to find a good, qualified facility in
18 this area at all. If you do find one, the cost is great.
19 My son was in 4-H but not just showing horses but
20 dogs. They have outgrown this area. This property is
21 already zoned industrial. The traffic noise generated from
22 a horse park would be greatly less than a G.M. factory or a
23 mobile home park. I believe that the horse park, 4-H and
24 agriculture aspect of this facility will be a great benefit
25 to the community in a great economical way. Thank you.
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1 SUE BOWDERE: My name is Sue Bowdere, and I live
2 at 308 Pine Street, Dimondale, Windsor Township.
3 I came tonight because originally I thought it was
4 a swell idea to have a horse park here. Two out of the last
5 three weekends I have been at Great Lakes down in Muskegon
6 happily gambling and losing on horses, and I said how
7 wouldn't it be fun to have something five miles away. I
8 have been going to the Muskegon area about nine years, and
9 they are probably going to move it to Detroit. Money is not
10 being made at horse tracks. If this park goes through and
11 it's not that dependent on the horse track, that's fine, but
12 they're probably going to lose money. So even if you vote
13 to approve this tonight, it's very very likely it's going to
14 lose money. The ones around the state are not making it.
15 After listening to the comments tonight, and I
16 have sat here all night long, I remembered why I live in
17 Dimondale, why I live in Windsor Township, and it's because
18 of the real character of the area. A lot of people that are
19 speaking for this are not the people on Pinch Highway, Nixon
20 Road. So it's not too much for me to go to Muskegon and
21 have fun a couple of nights a month at the race tracks.
22 I think the people on the Township Board have to
23 remember who you do represent and why it is that we have all
24 chosen to live here and not in Harbor Springs and not in
25 Eaton Rapids. We live here, and we live here for a reason.
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1 So as you consider what you're going to do, please remember
2 who the people are that are going to be most affected. It's
3 going to be the people who live right there right by where
4 they are proposing to do it, and I haven't heard many of
5 them stating they're in favor of this.
6 Thank you.
7 THEODORE FELDPAUSCH: My name is Theodore
8 Feldpausch. I live at 6908 Nixon Road.
9 I'm nervous, but I would like to say that I oppose
10 the building of this racetrack. One thing that I'm
11 concerned about is where Nixon Road crosses over the
12 railroad tracks. The road would have to be upgraded because
13 it's a danger going over the tracks now, and you take some
14 truck loaded with horses and pulls up there and has to go
15 across those tracks. I think it would be quite an expense
16 there of rebuilding and getting the road up where it would
17 be in good shape.
18 Also, with the water problem, which was addressed
19 by one of the other members, that it's going to have an
20 impact on the wells around the area wherever they get the
21 water. And also, I don't want them to start something and
22 not finish it, so I think you should make them post bonds if
23 it's already proposed, but I think they should post bonds
24 and require enough to complete the job if they start it, so
25 thank you.
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1 MARK KORROCH: Good evening, ladies and gentlemen
2 of the board. My name is more Korroch. I live at 5143
3 Lansing Road in Windsor Township, and I vote in Windsor
4 Township.
5 I think you can tell by most of the comments here
6 tonight people that live in the surrounding area of Lansing
7 are for this. They see the economic value of this and the
8 growth. The horse lovers of the state that are represented
9 here tonight are all looking for facilities to display their
10 horses, but I think you have heard most of the people in
11 this township don't want this. They don't want it in their
12 back yard, even if it doesn't stink. Those are the people
13 you represent.
14 Now, a few years ago, I came to the Township
15 Zoning board on another matter totally unrelated to this
16 tonight, and after the business of the board that dealt with
17 me and my wife that night was over, the board discussed
18 their proposals to come up with a way to restrict adult
19 entertainment in the township so that they couldn't be
20 blindsided like they have up here and tell you this is
21 good. I don't know if they are going to teach them what a
22 trifecta is or how to bet on it. If you are going to go
23 through with this, I would suggest that you come up with
24 some tax abatements and get all the adult entertainment in
25 one area. You might as well move the Hawaiian Health Spa
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1 and the Velvet Touch.
2 I know some people love horses, and I understand
3 people love their horses, but that doesn't mean they can't
4 find some other place for this. It doesn't need to be in
5 our back yards. Thank you.
6 MICHAEL DYER: My name is Michael Dyer. I live at
7 2826 Vermont Street. I have a business a couple of miles
8 from here.
9 I have a different perspective here. I'm not
10 taking a position either for or against this development,
11 but I will tell you that I'm very concerned about General
12 Motors and at the impact they have on the community and the
13 impact they have on my company. We have several buildings,
14 equipment, a lot of people employed, and they paid $105,000
15 in health insurance last year, and I see that all
16 dwindling. We need to find something that's going to
17 diversify, perhaps keep some kind of standard of living in
18 the community. I don't know if it's this project, but it
19 has to be something. I'm very concerned about this. How do
20 we maintain the standard of living. That's all I have to
21 say. Thank you.
22 TERRY HANKS: Hi. I'm Terry hanks. I live on
23 Bunker Highway in Eaton Rapids, and I'm the land owner that
24 put it out on an option to Mr. Lange. And I'm a horse
25 lover, like to have all the things for the kids and a lot of
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1 good things one way or the other. But I think the only
2 basic thing I would be thinking about if I lived there,
3 because I'm really getting the calls if Mr. Lange's option
4 is still available, so when is that going to run out of gas
5 and all those things.
6 Truly, the pretty trees and the stuff, some of it
7 is probably going to go, and it's probably going to go to
8 jobbers from General Motors, and that's good for our area
9 too, and I'm not too sure they are not going to put more
10 people to work there. The last people I talked to was going
11 to start the process and it was going to employ quite a good
12 many people, and that's really good for me, the Chevrolet
13 dealership.
14 I don't live there, but I have got a couple of
15 little kids that I like to see have fun, and I like to see
16 the horse business and hear from the horse business what it
17 does. If I lived right across the street -- I think that
18 brand new factories look good. Them are pretty good white
19 buildings. There again, do think they're going to stay that
20 way or do I want to have a place that I can at least get
21 some entertainment out of, and hopefully we can complain to
22 the Licensing Bureau about the race tracks, and we complain
23 is the neighborhood going to be the same. Heck no.
24 Believe me, I didn't want to sell this thing. I
25 liked hunting with my bow over there, but when they start
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1 coming to you, you know, it's going to go one way or the
2 other, guys. If I lived there and I would have this horse
3 operation with licensed people I can argue with rather than
4 a factory going in, and I think when I bought it that's been
5 like seven or eight years or something like. That, but just
6 food for thought. I think it's good for the community, at
7 least better. These guys in this factory have got to build
8 in this area, I know that for a fact, and I think they are
9 working on that engine plant over on Canal right now because
10 they are off my back. But that's the start of it, to give
11 you a view of what's coming firsthand, for whatever it's
12 worth. Thank you, very much.
13 WENDY BURTON: Hello. My name is Wendy Bird. I
14 live at 5799 Chubby Drive, Windsor Township.
15 And whether you are for or against this
16 development and for whatever reason, I just want to point
17 out that your own ordinances, this board's ordinances,
18 Article 8.6.3(4)(a)(b) says, and based on the plans that we
19 have seen from Dorian's presentation that we have been given
20 previously, that all sites shall be located on a major or
21 minor arterial. All traffic ingress or egresses shall be
22 from said arterial, not just the one mainly used by the
23 trucks; it's all. And Pinch and Nixon are not designated or
24 nationally classified as major or minor arterials, so the
25 plan is going to stand as it is for or against. It's
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1 basically your own ordinances that you have to uphold, and
2 if you don't uphold them, you will be violating the law.
3 Thank you.
4 MR. MARTINEZ: One more speaker.
5 JUDY DAHLGREN: My name is Judy Dahlgren. I live
6 at 6345 Royston Road, Potterville.
7 We have property in Windsor Township, and that
8 property is a mile from the site. I wanted to make that
9 clear.
10 I'm disturbed by the ever changing site plan. I
11 predict that Mr. Lange's development, if constructed, will
12 not resemble any site plan that the Planning Commission has
13 reviewed and approved. In fact, I wonder why the site plan
14 keeps changing.
15 The first site plan that Mr. Lange proposed was a
16 nature reserve, grass parking, hiking, lakes, a park, picnic
17 area, gardens. The plan also showed a vet clinic and M.S.U.
18 Turf signs. There was little blacktop, there was very
19 little blacktop parking. Interesting, it also showed a
20 facility named the St. Clair Center. Was that named after
21 our township supervisor, Mr. Lange?
22 The second site plan that Mr. Lange presented was
23 very different, no wetlands, nature reserves, no lakes, no
24 parks or picnic areas, no gardens, no grass parking and lots
25 of blacktop parking. The St. Clair Center was still there.
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1 The site plan again was named Windsor Downs.
2 The third site plan that Mr. Lange presented was
3 named Michigan Horse Park. No, it was not renamed Windsor
4 Horse Park. The site plan reflected a racetrack, hotel,
5 restaurant, grandstands, colosseum, stable area with 500
6 stalls, which now in the paper I read today is 1,100 horses,
7 so everything keeps changing, a maintenance building, R.V.
8 camping right behind the stables. So this would be for
9 horse owners and/or their staff.
10 This plan includes an outdoor show, exhibition
11 space, indoor arena, a covered grandstand for racing
12 viewing, a hotel, a barn and stalls. There are no buildings
13 designated on the site for these facilities. Where will
14 they be located, Mr. Lange, or will these be eliminated from
15 your third site plan?
16 Do you realize, Mr. Lange, that 4-H doesn't
17 participate where gambling occurs or where alcohol is
18 served? Events sometimes also include indoor, outdoor horse
19 shows, livestock shows, house and pet shows. We already
20 have the M.S.U. Pavilion for these type of events. This
21 development is unnecessary. And tonight, Mr. Lange
22 presented yet another site plan, his fourth plan. How many
23 more site plans will there be, and the Friends of Windsor
24 Charter Township will not stop fighting this process.
25 REID HANES: Reid Hanes, 6877 Pinch Highway,
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1 Windsor Township.
2 I came up in front of the board probably about 15
3 years ago to get a kennel license, which I was granted, and
4 the first thing they asked me is how are you going to take
5 care of the waste, and this was Mr. St. Clair. I explained
6 that to them, and they did grant me a kennel license, but
7 then they come around, and they didn't like the facilities
8 because the dogs were on the ground. They wanted me to
9 cement them.
10 Well, Mr. Miller, Dr. Miller, is a friend of mine,
11 and I was not in favor of cementing because that causes dogs
12 to get arthritis. So I said well, I'll put treated plywood
13 down, and I did. Okay. I cleaned them kennels every day,
14 the dog houses. I always had Pine Soil and everything to
15 keep all the odor down. And they come around and they said
16 they didn't want the plywood because it held odors.
17 Well, with 500 horses compared to 6 dogs, there's
18 no comparison in the odor. Those horses are going to put
19 out a lot more odor than my dogs did. I never had a
20 complaint. Nobody ever called up or nothing on that.
21 So I guess what I'm saying is I don't know how you
22 can have that many horses without an odor. If you go down
23 to Terry Hanks' riding stable, and I have been there, if you
24 don't smell horses, you've got a plugged nose. Thank you.
25 MR. MARTINEZ: Last speaker.
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1 VERNON FAUSTEAD: My name is Vernon Faustead. I
2 live next to Gizzard City on Vermontville Highway.
3 Could my grandson go to this racetrack and get a
4 job and support a family? Most of those jobs, I'm sure, are
5 not going to pay like a factory. I would rather see a
6 factory there and pay maybe $15, $18 an hour than close to
7 minimum wage.
8 As far as the smell, I have had ponies for pushing
9 50 years, and believe me, they don't smell as bad as a dog.
10 But I'll tell you right now, I'm not in favor of
11 this racetrack. I'm not in favor of gambling. I think it's
12 the people who can least afford to lose are the ones that
13 lose the most, and that's my feeling. I'm sorry.
14 And if this man owes a ton of money to the
15 township for back taxes, what's to say he's going to keep up
16 on this other venture. That's it. I'm just not in favor of
17 it.
18 KEN HOWE: My name is Ken Howe. I live at 1801
19 Waverly Road, Holt, and I am a resident of Windsor
20 Township.
21 One quick question. I heard the gentleman from
22 the Cutting Horse Association describe they are bringing
23 their rigs in to camp on site. Is the use of this facility
24 as a campground consistent with the variance that he is
25 asking for or is this an unlicensed campground? Thank you.
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1 MR. LANGE: Okay. We've had a number of issues
2 brought up, and I respect all of those who are opposed to
3 this project just as much as I appreciate all of you who
4 supported it.
5 The bottom line is, I think as Mr. Hanks
6 indicated, and Mr. Hanks is a businessman, as you all know,
7 and he did not buy the land to go bow hunting there as the
8 purpose, so it's going to end up something, and I guess it's
9 the choice of the Planning Commission and the board to
10 determine what that is. And I would like to know sooner
11 than later, wouldn't you all?
12 I have been on this project for years, as many of
13 you know, and Judy was good enough to point out that the
14 site plan has changed four times. How many more times will
15 it change? Well, it will probably change a lot of times,
16 because final site plan approval is subject to the Planning
17 Commission and the board. They approve every aspect from
18 the preliminary site plan, the blueprints, the water issue,
19 the sewer. Everything comes under the Planning Commission.
20 The special use permit is a piece of paper that
21 allows us to proceed with the site planning. They are your
22 gatekeeper. They are your elected officials. If there's
23 something in the project that does not meet building code or
24 ordinances, they will not pass it, that is their job. Just
25 as if I were to go ahead and exercise this option from Terry
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1 and build an industrial park for auto suppliers there, every
2 one of those buildings or one massive building would have to
3 be subject to a site plan approval of the Planning
4 Commission.
5 So this special use permit is only one step in a
6 multitude of processes that we have to go through to get
7 final approval to commence building. And I am sure, because
8 of the magnitude of this project, your Planning Commission
9 will fly spec every single thing about this project to make
10 sure it's done correctly.
11 The comment from Becky Nevai about 20 feet from my
12 front door, well the site plan is to scale, I believe one
13 inch for every 200 feet, is that right, or 100 feet? So
14 when you look at a site plan and it looks like it's a couple
15 of inches, it's not 20 feet. One inch is 200 feet, or 100
16 feet, or whatever it is to scale. I haven't looked at it
17 lately.
18 Will it change? Yes, because they will ask for
19 changes to take place. A special use permit is a piece of
20 paper that lasts for one year. Okay. We have to submit
21 engineer plans, we have to do all the same things, much as
22 if when we built Tower Automotive over in Delta Township or
23 Yuzaki or somebody else over there.
24 I'm in the business of building ugly boxes for
25 automotive suppliers. That is what I do for a living. My
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1 former life was a pharmacist. Now, I'm a real estate
2 developer; I build ugly buildings. The question you have to
3 look at is what are we building here.
4 The truth of the matter is someone has said, and I
5 don't know who it was, the only truths in life are death and
6 taxes. This will generate taxes. All of us here will pass
7 on. All of us here will pass on; that's a given. We built
8 ugly factories over there, and the longevity of those
9 facilities is about 30 years. I'm hoping to build a legacy
10 here much like Churchill Downs that will last hundreds of
11 years that we'll be proud of that will raise the property
12 values of the adjoining residences in that area.
13 As far as the manure issue, you know, we have that
14 taken care of. If it becomes a problem, you have the Racing
15 Commission, you have the Public Health Department, we have a
16 host, your Planning Commission, we have a host of regulatory
17 agencies to answer to. Our plan is to truck that off every
18 day so there won't be any odor. There will be some odor,
19 but they will be in sealed bins. I don't know what waste
20 company that you talked to, but I know if Mr. Lee Hammond
21 from Hammond Farms is here, he wants some of that because
22 that's a commodity for him because we'll compost it.
23 As far as a water issue, we will be bringing at
24 our cost, at our cost, municipal water to the site. And
25 some of you raised the issue of the back taxes. Those back
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1 taxes are due to the fact that we did bring water three
2 miles underneath the Grand River from the City of Lansing to
3 Creyts and Lansing Road halfway to the project. That
4 project was enormously expensive. We need to be able to
5 extend that out and be able to pay that assessment and make
6 that right, because that whole sewer project and waterline
7 needs to be addressed not only for the Creyts and Lansing
8 Roads site, but that's why Ivanhoe Huntley was here, because
9 they would like to build housing units there. The water and
10 sewer is there. But they also want the occupants that new
11 jobs will create.
12 As far as Attorney Smith's or Attorney Denise's
13 comments, I guess Friends of Windsor Township, I guess my
14 question to you, Mrs. Attorney, are you registered as a non
15 profit? Is the organization registered as a pack? Are you
16 representing yourself or are you representing a pack? Are
17 you registered?
18 MS. SMITH: I'm representing a group of
19 individuals.
20 MR. LANGE: So they are not a political action
21 committee?
22 MS. SMITH: No, they're not.
23 MR. LANGE: Okay. I just wanted to know. And
24 they are not a non profit organization?
25 MS. SMITH: No, they're not.
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1 MR. LANGE: As far as gaming, if you want to go
2 gamble, they're going to be building an Indian casino in
3 Battle Creek. Get in your car and drive down the road. You
4 can bet on horses on the Internet, on a computer. That's
5 where most of the gambling takes place. On the computer,
6 that's where most of the bidding takes place. You can go up
7 to Mt. Pleasant. There's buses leaving every day. We want
8 to have horse races there. Betting on horses is part of
9 horse racing. That's the truth of the matter.
10 The issue about 4-H, we have had a number of 4-H
11 leaders, including Sharon Powell has been a 4-H leader for
12 49 years in this county, say they want to be in this
13 facility. They want to be in this facility. And I don't
14 think anybody is going to dictate to Sharon Powell whether
15 her group can or cannot go in that facility; am I right,
16 Sharon?
17 So as far as site plan changes, you know, here's
18 your gatekeepers. That's why you elected them. They're
19 going to make a prudent decision. But yeah, we are a rural
20 community; we are a rural community. I say we because when
21 I buy that land from Terry, it's me and it's we. It's him
22 right now. When you're next to half a mile of rail, next to
23 a rail yard that's feeding a billion dollar General Motors
24 factory and you expect it to stay the same forever, I think
25 we're sadly mistaken. And if you want industrial there,
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1 yeah, General Motors will pay more than somebody working at
2 Michigan Horse Park unless they're a veterinarian or a
3 farrier or a ticket-taker that are represented by the
4 Teamsters. But I don't think General Motors is hiring a lot
5 of new people these days.
6 This diversifies our economy. All of us have
7 kids, grandkids or kids on the way. I have been a high
8 school athletic coach for many many years. I have seen kids
9 get in trouble. It's not like it was 20 years ago when you
10 said do this, do that, and they did it. Now, they come from
11 broken homes. They have alcohol problems, they have drug
12 problems. Sports keeps them out of trouble. Horses, 4-H,
13 rodeos, all of that gives them something to do. And if you
14 don't give your kids something to do, I assure you, I assure
15 you they will find something to do, and most times it won't
16 be good choices.
17 So again, I just want to reiterate the fact that
18 your Planning Commission is here to do their job. I would
19 like them to make the decision sooner than later so we can
20 get about business, whether it's going to be an industrial
21 park or it's going to be a horse park, so I'm asking the
22 Planning Commission, with all due respect, to take a vote
23 tonight and let your constituents know where we're going.
24 And I also would like Mr. Foulds' comment on the
25 conforming use issue here. I think that the horse park is
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1 fairly consistent with industrial as far as noise and
2 traffic and smell and lights. You're going to have that
3 with industrial projects, and it is in conformance with the
4 ordinance. I would like his comments on that. But I would
5 ask again for a vote of the Planning Commission. Thank you,
6 so much.
7 MR. MARTINEZ: First of all, I'd like to thank the
8 applicant, Mr. Lange, for his presentation to this group so
9 that all of us can become better informed on the project.
10 A second thanks to all of you. I think you did a
11 very nice job as a public in your comments, and I think you
12 behaved accordingly. So thank you, very much.
13 This now concludes the public hearing on the
14 applicant's project.
15 We welcome you to all our meetings, so you have
16 until the next meeting, depending on what happens here
17 tonight.
18 The public meeting in this matter is now closed.
19 Thank you for your participation.
20 We will now convene our regular meeting. Is there
21 any public here that wants to make a comment not on this
22 project but any comment relative to Windsor Township?
23 The hearing will now move to approval of the
24 minutes of the previous meeting.
25 Next item on the agenda is to approve the minutes
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1 of the previous meeting. Have my colleagues had time to
2 approve the minutes? Are there any additions or
3 corrections?
4 Hearing none, the minutes stand approved as
5 printed.
6 Next item is reports. Mr. Blair, Board of
7 Trustees.
8 MR. BLAIR: Just a real quick thing, a couple of
9 issues, I should say.
10 The board moved to accept the recommendation of
11 the Sewer Board to amend the ordinance on quarterly billings
12 for sewer fees.
13 We also read the resolution of intent to rezone
14 the Regan property on Billwood from A-1 to B-2, a previous
15 action that we had taken and recommended to the Township
16 Board, along with the comment from the Planning Commission
17 to the board that we would be reviewing the Secondary
18 Complex area in the master plan.
19 I think that's probably all of the things that we
20 covered.
21 MR. MARTINEZ: Thank you. The next item is Board
22 of Appeals, Mr. Kubicek.
23 MR. KUBICEK: Mr. Chairman, there was one appeal,
24 and it involved a setback issue on Vermontville Highway.
25 The lot was a non conforming lot, and they wanted to build a
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1 garage on the side of the house, and since it was a non
2 conforming lot, they needed a variance to allow the
3 construction to take place.
4 As it turns out, the board approved the variance
5 with the stipulation that certain landscaping was involved
6 as well as siding to match the house. That was the only
7 appeal.
8 MR. MARTINEZ: Thank you, Mr. Co-Chairman.
9 The next item on the agenda as unfinished
10 business, the WILS tower special use permit, and my
11 recollection is that we tabled that with an agreement
12 between our planning consultant and the parties making the
13 request that they meet and work out the unfinished items
14 that were not completed, and I would like to -- I'm sorry.
15 A little logistical thing.
16 We need a motion on the table for the special use
17 permit for WILS tower. Do I have a motion?
18 MR. BLAIR: I'll make a motion that we untable
19 it.
20 MR. KUBICEK: Second.
21 MR. MARTINEZ: Movement by Mr. Blair, seconded by
22 Mr. Kubicek that we untable the special use permit for WILS
23 towers, and now we can proceed.
24 And what I would like to do is have our planner,
25 Mr. Foulds, go through and -- let's take a vote. All those
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1 in favor of the motion to untable the special use permit
2 signify by saying aye. All those opposed same.
3 Motion passes we untable it. Tried to move a
4 little bit too quick. Sorry.
5 Now, we can proceed with Mr. Foulds. Would you
6 please go through the recommendations that you have made?
7 MR. FOULDS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
8 As a result of our last meeting, as you've
9 indicated, you directed staff to meet with the applicant. I
10 might add Mr. Harding from McDonald Broadcasting is here
11 this evening to answer any additional questions you might
12 have.
13 Staff met with representatives of McDonald
14 Broadcasting on May 11th and also -- I'm sorry -- May 23rd
15 and as late as June 2nd to review the application material.
16 As a result of those meetings, as I indicated in my
17 memorandum to you of June 2nd, applicant has provided
18 additional information concerning adjacent land use and
19 zoning, proposed access to the site, setbacks from the
20 property line, tower elevations, which had been provided
21 previously, as well as topography, clarified setbacks from
22 existing residential properties. Did indicate that at this
23 point no landscape plan was proposed, but I'm addressing
24 that later in my recommendation. And at this point, no
25 fencing is proposed on the site other than around the
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1 support structures for the tower.
2 This is a special use permit, again, Mr. Chairman,
3 as you indicated, for a tower construction. There are
4 specific requirements in Ordinance No. 30, as I indicated at
5 the last meeting. In summary, those addressed the height of
6 the tower. This particular tower is less than 200 feet,
7 which would not require the tower to be lighted under
8 Michigan law.
9 The applicant has clarified the proximity to any
10 residential structures, and that proximity, based on
11 specific dimensions, the closest residential structure would
12 be over 600 feet to the nearest tower.
13 I indicated they clarified the design of the
14 tower. This is a lattice tower. The designer is Munn
15 Reese, Incorporated, and again, as indicated, there is no
16 painting or lighting of the tower in an effort to try to
17 minimize its visual impact.
18 In addition to the tower, the only structure on
19 the site will be the equipment building, which is considered
20 an accessory structure, and that will necessitate a small
21 service drive which will access from the county road.
22 In terms of the ordinance requirement requiring
23 other towers in the area to provide the service, it was
24 clear from the applicant's presentation and review of the
25 material that federal guidelines require for transmission
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1 towers. In this case, the A.M. band, there's a specific
2 geographic area in which they must locate, so there is
3 really no potential for locating on or adjacent to other
4 towers.
5 Based on our review of the information submitted
6 at the public hearing, Mr. Chairman, the information
7 submitted with the application as well as our subsequent
8 meeting with applicant, we would recommend approval of the
9 special use permit with three conditions.
10 No. 1, that the applicant provide a landscape plan
11 which would attempt to minimize the perimeter impact on the
12 site, realizing you're not going to reduce the visibility of
13 the towers but reduce an impact to the equipment building
14 and the supports for the guy wires that will support the
15 tower to try to maximize the amount of open space on the
16 property.
17 The second condition would be provision of a final
18 site plan, which would have all the final dimensions on the
19 site, which we don't have at this point in terms of specific
20 location of each individual tower, and that site plan must
21 be submitted back to the Planning Commission for review and
22 approval, and that of course would include that landscape
23 treatment that I just addressed.
24 And then thirdly, provision of all necessary
25 approvals by the county, state and federal agencies to the
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1 township, realizing that, of course, the approval of the
2 special use permit, if it is approved, is the first step in
3 that process.
4 I would be happy to answer any questions, and as I
5 indicated, the McDonald Broadcasting representative is here
6 as well.
7 MR. MARTINEZ: Sir, is there any comments you wish
8 to make relative to the recommendation you just mentioned?
9 MR. HARDING: Well, we're here to answer any
10 questions the board may have. Are there any questions you
11 have for us that you would like answered, something that
12 wasn't brought out in the package that you were provided?
13 MR. MARTINEZ: Any questions from the
14 commissioners?
15 MR. KUBICEK: I have one question. If we're
16 considering landscaping, what sort of landscaping is
17 allowed, anything and everything, or would a certain type of
18 landscaping interfere with your transmission?
19 MR. HARDING: Well, with an A.M. tower, we try to
20 keep vegetation at a minimum, but if we're talking about
21 landscaping buildings per se, we would be happy to sit down
22 and discuss the landscaping plans for what would be needed
23 to obscure the line of site of the building and any guy
24 supports.
25 MR. KUBICEK: The board will want to be asking
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1 some of those issues. I wanted to know if there were any
2 limitations in terms of interfering with the transmission.
3 Apparently not.
4 MR. HARDING: No, not really.
5 MR. MARTINEZ: Thank you. Any other questions
6 from the commissioners? The Chair will entertain a motion
7 as approval of this issue be based on the following
8 stipulations as our planner has explained and written in the
9 reports.
10 MR. MARSH: I'll make the motion that it be
11 accepted with the conditions met as stated.
12 MR. MARTINEZ: The motion is made to accept. Is
13 there a second?
14 MS. JOHNSON: I'll second it.
15 MR. MARTINEZ: Second by Ms. Johnson to approve
16 the special use permit with the conditions stipulated by our
17 planner as were just discussed in discussion on the motion.
18 All those in favor signify by saying aye.
19 (Commissioners Respond by saying aye)
20 MR. MARTINEZ: All those opposed same.
21 (No Response)
22 MR. MARTINEZ: The special use permit is approved
23 with the followings stipulations so listed. Thank you.
24 The next item on the agenda is the Michigan Horse
25 Park, which we just got through with the public hearing.
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1 First of all, any comments from the
2 commissioners?
3 Mr. Foulds, do you have any comments you would
4 like to make?
5 MR. FOULDS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
6 I believe staff would like the opportunity, No. 1,
7 to review the results of the public hearing, comments made
8 at the public hearing and questions raised.
9 Secondly, we would like the opportunity to again
10 compare the information presented at the public hearing and
11 the documentation submitted with the application with the
12 general standards for granting a special use permit, and
13 again, that's Section 8.1.3, as has been discussed this
14 evening.
15 So we would request that the Planning Commission
16 table the item and direct staff to meet with the applicant
17 to ascertain what additional information, if any, needs to
18 be submitted so that the Planning Commission can make an
19 informed decision on Section 8.1.3, which are the general
20 standards for approving a special use permit, items A
21 through F, and you all have copies of those and are familiar
22 with those.
23 So that would be my comments, Mr. Chairman. Thank
24 you.
25 MR. MARTINEZ: Thank you, Mr. Foulds. That was
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1 consistent with what I was going to recommend to our
2 colleagues on the board for several reasons.
3 There was a lot of information presented here
4 tonight by the public, pro and con, and as a couple of
5 citizens mentioned, this is a very important decision. We
6 have a lot to consider, and we need to do our best to make
7 the best decision that we could possibly make, and also
8 under our Zoning Ordinance, we have up to 60 days to get a
9 written report and make a recommendation to the Board of
10 Trustees, so we are well within the time limits. So unless
11 anyone has some adverse feelings to that, I will ask for a
12 motion to table this matter until the July meeting.
13 MR. KUBICEK: Mr. Chairman, given the questions
14 that Mr. Foulds posed, as well as the list of questions that
15 I have, I make a motion to table this consideration until
16 the next meeting, hopefully giving us plenty of time to
17 prepare the background information to make an informed
18 decision.
19 MR. MARTINEZ: Is there a second to Mr. Kubicek's
20 motion?
21 MRS. PRAY: I second.
22 MR. MARTINEZ: Second by Mrs. Pray that we table
23 this for the reasons we just so stipulated. We need a
24 sufficient amount of time to deliberate and make the correct
25 decision.
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1 All those in favor of the motion, signify by
2 saying aye.
3 (Commissioners respond by saying aye)
4 MR. MARTINEZ: All those opposed same.
5 (No response).
6 MR. MARTINEZ: The motion passes.
7 The Michigan Park issue is tabled until the July
8 meeting.
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11 (END OF STENOGRAPHIC RECORD AT 10:15 P.M.)
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1 CERTIFICATE OF NOTARY PUBLIC
2
STATE OF MICHIGAN )
3 ) ss:
COUNTY OF INGHAM )
4
5 I, M. Jane Allen, CSR-2724, a Shorthand Reporter and
6 Notary Public in and for the County of Ingham, State of Michigan,
7 do hereby certify that the aforegoing proceedings were taken
8 before me at the time and place hereinbefore set forth.
9 I further certify that the aforegoing transcript is a
10 complete, true and accurate record of the proceedings held in
11 said matter.
12 IN TESTIMONY WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand and
13 notarial seal at Lansing, Ingham County, Michigan, this 23rd day
14 of June, 2005.
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______________________________
18 M. Jane Allen, CSR-2724
Registered Professional Reporter
19
MY COMMISSION EXPIRES:
20
May 10, 2007
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